A Sense of Justice

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Maîtres Christine Mengus, Nohra Boukara and Audrey Scarinoff put their hearts and souls into defending immigrants in France. As firsthand witnesses to the absurd situations in which their clients find themselves, in their hands lies the fate of women, men and children, whose lives hang on these judicial decisions. As allies against the coldness of the administration and the stiffness of the justice system, these women are for many, the lawyers of the last chance.

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Main credits

Pauw, Swen de (filmmaker)
Bonin, Cédric (film producer)
Geoffroy, Pascaline (film producer)
Owyszer, Maxime (film producer)

Other credits

Editing, Laureline Delom; cinematography, Hervé Roesch.

MARC Record See Worldcat record

Keywords

france,immigrants,immigration,judicial system,court system,courts,maitres,justice system,lawyer,lawyers; "A Sense of Justice"; Andana Films

00:01:01.800 --> 00:01:08.160
So, another lawyer
filed a right of appeal

00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.160
instead of a contentious appeal.

00:01:11.320 --> 00:01:15.400
He forgot.
He didn't do his job properly.

00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:18.200
And so now...

00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.040
He's ruined me,
he's ruined the case.

00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:24.720
He's ruined the case.

00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:28.640
He cost me a fortune,
which I haven't got.

00:01:28.960 --> 00:01:30.920
I get up at 4 a.m.
to earn money.

00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:34.800
I'm risking my life
and he's ruined me.

00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.160
But he might not
have won.

00:01:38.440 --> 00:01:41.920
He might not have
obtained the cancellation of...

00:01:42.240 --> 00:01:44.880
But at least I could
have carried on.

00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:46.560
He's cut me off.

00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:50.280
I lived there
for 15 years.

00:01:50.960 --> 00:01:53.840
But I told you
when you have Italian papers...

00:01:54.080 --> 00:01:57.720
I'm allowed free circulation
under the Schengen Agreement.

00:01:57.920 --> 00:01:59.640
Yes, but only freedom of circulation.

00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:01.800
You have to leave
after 3 months.

00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.840
If you want to stay, you have
to go to the police station

00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:07.400
and say you've just arrived.

00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:09.960
I asked. I found a job.
I got a contract.

00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.520
Not 3 or 6 months later.

00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:16.040
They refused the work permit.

00:02:16.320 --> 00:02:18.360
I'm not talking about
the work permit.

00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:20.120
Focus on what I'm saying.

00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:22.120
You have 3 months
to circulate freely.

00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.440
How do they check
when you first entered?

00:02:25.720 --> 00:02:28.080
How do they calculate
the 3 months?

00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:33.040
You have to register
at the police station.

00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:36.360
I did. I went to the prefecture.

00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:38.240
And they gave me...

00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:42.000
I said the police station...

00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:45.800
No but...how many times,
for goodness sake!

00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.840
And on top of that,
you have an exclusion order.

00:02:49.760 --> 00:02:52.560
An exclusion order
means that

00:02:52.920 --> 00:02:58.920
you must leave
the European Union for two years,

00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:00.560
if you want to come back.

00:03:00.720 --> 00:03:03.640
I left my home,
I left everything.

00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:06.880
I work here,
I've signed a rental agreement.

00:03:07.040 --> 00:03:10.320
What can I do?
I'm not a disposable object.

00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:12.960
Why have they done this to me?
What's going on?

00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:16.440
I've no idea, I wasn't there
but it's the law.

00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:21.560
I can't work miracles.
I can't just cancel...

00:03:21.720 --> 00:03:25.520
That's why I've come to see you,
to find a solution.

00:03:26.160 --> 00:03:28.680
Well...

00:03:29.160 --> 00:03:31.200
It's not looking good.

00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:33.720
So, to put it simply...

00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:41.360
You've been present in France
for the requisite 5 years

00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:44.080
even though your permit
is an Italian one.

00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:47.440
That permit is always
going to be a problem.

00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:51.680
Some prefectures
might consider

00:03:51.880 --> 00:03:55.840
that because you
have an Italian permit

00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:58.760
you're resident in Italy
and not in France.

00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:04.160
If we manage to overcome
the issue of the Italian permit,

00:04:04.880 --> 00:04:08.720
there's still the issue of the
exclusion order, ok?

00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:13.720
First you have to request
the lifting of the exclusion order

00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:19.080
before requesting a French permit.

00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:24.600
I'm not saying it won't work but...

00:04:25.960 --> 00:04:27.560
It's hopeless.

00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:30.800
Let's hope we get
somebody conciliatory.

00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.800
Tell me what you're
prepared to do.

00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:41.080
I have confidence
in your ability.

00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:42.760
You know better than me.

00:04:43.400 --> 00:04:45.000
You know the law
better than me.

00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:49.520
Although I've seen so many lawyers,
I could become one myself.

00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:54.160
I'll soon be able
to qualify!

00:04:54.880 --> 00:04:56.920
I've had enough.

00:04:58.080 --> 00:04:59.680
I'm not a thief,
I'm not a dealer.

00:05:01.080 --> 00:05:03.080
It's driving me crazy...

00:05:03.280 --> 00:05:07.040
I'm thinking of hanging myself
in front of the prefect.

00:05:08.080 --> 00:05:12.760
That's all that remains for me to do,
he's wrecking my life for papers.

00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:15.600
- It's not normal.
- I know.

00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:20.080
France is supposed to be a country
of humanity and justice.

00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:21.960
Where are they?

00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:24.080
I'm a human being.

00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:27.200
- I know.
- I'll fall into a depression.

00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:33.080
Every morning I see the cops
when I'm driving, it's hell.

00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:35.920
It's not the fault
of the cops.

00:05:36.080 --> 00:05:41.280
If they stop me,
they'll take me to a centre.

00:05:42.080 --> 00:05:45.640
Taken to a centre at my age?
I'm not 22.

00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.160
I've done nothing wrong.

00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:51.440
People who've just arrived
already have their papers.

00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.040
I've been waiting years.

00:05:54.280 --> 00:05:57.120
The problem is I have
nobody left in Algeria.

00:05:57.560 --> 00:05:59.440
I have no friends there.

00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:02.600
I left friends behind
when I left Italy.

00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.760
I made a little nest for myself
in France, and now...

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:10.160
What's going on?
I'm going crazy.

00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:12.960
I'm going to get ill soon.

00:06:14.080 --> 00:06:18.400
- I'm sorry.
- It's ok. You've had many lawyers.

00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:22.720
When you want to get regularised
you need to stick with one lawyer

00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:25.640
who knows your situation
inside out

00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:29.000
and who works
to get your permit.

00:06:29.640 --> 00:06:34.760
You're coming to see me
"at the end" of the process

00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:38.080
so I can't guarantee
it will work

00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:42.800
and if it does,
I cannot guarantee when.

00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:47.800
And it will cost you money too
in legal fees.

00:06:47.960 --> 00:06:51.240
I want to make that clear.
We'll sign an agreement

00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:57.240
and my fee does not depend
on the result, ok?

00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:03.120
And if I tell you it's too risky,
it's your decision to pursue or not.

00:07:03.400 --> 00:07:06.720
But where do I go, Maître?

00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:42.920
A SENSE OF JUSTICE

00:08:55.560 --> 00:08:59.360
Ok. So you're Bangladeshi?

00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:02.560
Ok. You come from Bangladesh?

00:09:02.920 --> 00:09:05.440
- Do you understand French?
- Yes.

00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:10.440
Did you come here
directly from Bangladesh?

00:09:14.680 --> 00:09:15.640
Sorry?

00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:17.400
First India, then here.

00:09:17.560 --> 00:09:20.040
You went to India first?

00:09:20.680 --> 00:09:25.280
You requested refugee status

00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.680
but it was turned down.

00:09:28.560 --> 00:09:32.960
The Immigration Office
rejected it

00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:36.400
as they considered you had
serious health problems

00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:39.600
and could undergo treatment
in your home country.

00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:41.280
Yes.

00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:49.240
You say you've been working,
washing up in a restaurant

00:09:49.400 --> 00:09:53.000
- since December 1, 2017?
- Yes.

00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.320
And when the prefecture
refused you a permit

00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:01.840
and ordered you to leave the country
you were still working?

00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:05.840
- Yes? On a long-term contract?
- Yes.

00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.760
Can I see the contract
and the pay slips?

00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:16.560
Did you send all these documents
to the prefecture?

00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:26.400
Ok. Does his employer know
about his situation?

00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:31.440
No.

00:10:31.640 --> 00:10:34.240
Because I'm afraid
he'll lose his job now.

00:10:34.760 --> 00:10:39.400
From January 9, if his employer
asks for a new receipt,

00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.760
he won't be able to provide one
so he'll lose his job.

00:10:51.560 --> 00:10:54.720
In the meantime,
he's taken over a small shop.

00:10:54.880 --> 00:10:59.320
- Ok. So he has manager status?
- Yes.

00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.920
So he does the washing up
and also has a small company?

00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:05.840
- What sort of shop?
- A grocery.

00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:07.480
- A grocery?
- Yes.

00:11:07.640 --> 00:11:10.120
Does he run it on his own?

00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:12.360
He runs it on his own
and he has an employee.

00:11:12.520 --> 00:11:15.840
So he created his company,
employed an employee

00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.000
and he works washing up
in the restaurant?

00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:22.360
He starts at the restaurant
in the morning,

00:11:22.760 --> 00:11:25.760
and in the afternoon
he manages the shop.

00:11:25.920 --> 00:11:29.840
Ok. And does he have
a day off every week?

00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:33.840
He takes a day off himself.

00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:38.120
- But he's a manager, you know.
- I know. I'm just asking.

00:11:40.160 --> 00:11:42.920
Does he sell Bangladeshi groceries?

00:11:43.760 --> 00:11:45.600
Does he sell Indian
or Bangladeshi groceries?

00:11:45.760 --> 00:11:48.440
No, it's a regular grocery store.

00:11:48.800 --> 00:11:53.840
Why are you laughing?
It could have been Bangladeshi

00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:56.080
or Indian, don't you think?

00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:59.800
Ok, I presume he has
pay slips?

00:11:59.960 --> 00:12:04.000
- So we'll request the pay slips...
- From his employer?

00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:05.560
His employee's pay slips.

00:12:06.040 --> 00:12:09.000
Yes, he's got the contract
and the pay slips here.

00:12:09.160 --> 00:12:11.480
Ok, and the
declaration of employment.

00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.320
- The rental agreement for his flat.
- Yes.

00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:30.080
There's another pay slip,
add it to the file.

00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:34.080
- Do you need his tax notice?
- Yes, why not.

00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:38.960
He's done a French language
training course.

00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:40.520
Very good.

00:12:40.680 --> 00:12:44.040
Does he have anything to add
regarding his situation?

00:12:50.640 --> 00:12:54.600
What happens if there's a control
after January 9th?

00:12:56.040 --> 00:13:01.120
Once we've filed an appeal
with the Administrative Tribunal

00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:05.200
the appeal suspends the
expulsion order.

00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:09.200
If he gets stopped
while he's out walking

00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:13.760
the prefecture used to put people
in detention centres but not anymore.

00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:17.040
The most they can do is
order home custody,

00:13:17.280 --> 00:13:19.920
which means he has to report
to the police

00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:23.360
until the tribunal has come to
a decision about his appeal.

00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:27.560
- Can we ask another question?
- Yes.

00:13:27.800 --> 00:13:29.640
What's the probability?

00:13:30.640 --> 00:13:32.840
That's never easy.

00:13:33.280 --> 00:13:37.880
It's always hard to know.

00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.400
You can't know.
It's a lottery.

00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:47.040
I'm not saying
it's a bad case,

00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:50.600
otherwise I wouldn't
have taken it on

00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:55.560
but it depends on the judge.

00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:58.400
Sometimes a judge will
make a decision

00:13:58.560 --> 00:14:02.240
and another judge on a similar
case will make a different one.

00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:08.400
So we'll do all we can
to make it work.

00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:13.320
As for the legal fees,
this type of procedure

00:14:13.560 --> 00:14:17.760
costs around ?1,500
to ?1,800, with VAT.

00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:24.920
If he can't pay all at once
he can pay monthly.

00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:46.440
For the fees, he's asking
if it's possible to...

00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.680
- To?
- Consider a little...

00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:52.640
- To consider a little?
- Yes.

00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:55.280
His case is going to require
a lot of work.

00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.880
I'll need to do a lot
of work on it.

00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:01.760
Ok.

00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:31.040
This week: tomorrow
we have interim proceedings,

00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:34.680
if any interns
want to come.

00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:36.920
We've got criminal court
tomorrow morning.

00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.800
- In the afternoon.
- Ok, very good.

00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:41.080
Interim proceedings
for what?

00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.920
The mother of two young girls
who obtained refugee status

00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.360
for risk of excision

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:54.000
and they don't want to give
the mother a residency permit

00:15:54.160 --> 00:15:58.800
because they consider she produced
forged identity documents and so...

00:16:00.280 --> 00:16:01.520
What are they proposing?

00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:08.400
Nothing at all until she produces
a civil status they can trust.

00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.360
- You should win that.
- I should, yes.

00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:15.240
With all the news about Guinean IDs
circulating on social media.

00:16:15.400 --> 00:16:19.920
The judge is Devasperse,
for what it's worth,

00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:25.040
but he kindly agreed to
change the hearing

00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:27.800
as I couldn't do
yesterday afternoon.

00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:32.200
You obtained a postponement
for an interim procedure?

00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:35.560
I've never obtained one
in my whole career.

00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:39.400
My dear Christine,
I have a present for you.

00:16:39.560 --> 00:16:43.600
- The new president likes you.
- It's not him.

00:16:43.760 --> 00:16:48.760
There's another hearing on the 21st,
if you're interested,

00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.360
if you want to go.

00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:52.680
- Which hearing? I'm lost.
- On the 21st.

00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:55.640
The 21st. No, I'm not going to that.

00:16:55.920 --> 00:16:57.760
You have to, I won't be here.

00:16:57.920 --> 00:17:01.640
I have a meeting at the prefecture
at 10.15. What can I do?

00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:05.520
I don't know but somebody
has to go as I'll be in Sète.

00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:09.480
- Can't Sara go?
- No, she can't plead alone.

00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:15.080
I can join her later.
I've got a German Chinese couple

00:17:15.800 --> 00:17:21.200
registering at the prefecture
at 10.15. I can't let them down.

00:17:21.360 --> 00:17:25.360
I can't leave Stella on her own with
them, as she'll be translating.

00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:29.040
I can come on afterwards.

00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:33.200
- Is it still the same case?
- No, it's a different one.

00:17:33.560 --> 00:17:36.000
- What time is it at?
- 10.00 a.m.

00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:37.720
- What can we do?
- I don't know.

00:17:40.120 --> 00:17:43.320
- Audrey?
- I don't know anything about it.

00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:46.480
I won't understand a thing,
that's what worries me.

00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.120
I'll see what I can do.

00:17:50.280 --> 00:17:55.600
- Next week?
- Yes, so next week...

00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.800
I have a meeting at the
prefecture Monday morning.

00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.480
I have a Family Court case
on Tuesday.

00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:05.120
On the 24th at 2.00 pm,
I'm pleading a case.

00:18:05.280 --> 00:18:07.440
It's only with the
Employment Tribunal

00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:10.920
so a lot less interesting than
foreigners' rights.

00:18:12.520 --> 00:18:17.280
We don't even think to tell you but
if you're interested in attending...

00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:19.440
It's before the Industrial Tribunal.

00:18:19.600 --> 00:18:21.360
- Monday of next week?
- Yes.

00:18:21.520 --> 00:18:23.160
Anything else?

00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.680
With Maître Boukara?

00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:47.680
Yes. Are you a new client?

00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:55.280
And what is the reason
for the appointment?

00:20:30.840 --> 00:20:36.640
Ok. I wanted to
review things with you

00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:42.000
as you called on me following the
tribunal's disappointing decision.

00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:47.160
As the request for a permit
was badly done

00:20:47.320 --> 00:20:49.560
I think you should try again.

00:20:49.800 --> 00:20:53.120
Because there's a memorandum
that enables regularisation

00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:55.960
of parents of children
attending school

00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.560
who have been in the country
for 5 years,

00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:00.680
a condition your parents
fulfill

00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:03.800
and 3 years of schooling
for their children,

00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.720
which is also your case.

00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:11.240
Except that, I don't know who
had the perhaps bad idea

00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.000
to give your school reports
to the prefecture,

00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.240
Did the prefecture ask for them?

00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.680
- We went there...
- When you first applied?

00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:24.800
Yes, because we went to the
League for Human Rights

00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.240
and they asked us
for them.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:33.760
So the prefecture had a look
at your results

00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:38.560
and they noted that you
- you're still a minor -

00:21:40.040 --> 00:21:43.360
were often absent

00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:48.440
and that your results
were not very good.

00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.600
So your parents get punished
for you not working hard at school.

00:21:54.840 --> 00:21:58.840
- Why didn't you attend school?
- I don't know.

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.160
I don't know.

00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:04.760
What do you mean,
you don't know?

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:13.920
My train was often late
and I sometimes didn't go to school.

00:22:14.360 --> 00:22:18.680
Were you not motivated?
Did you not like it?

00:22:22.760 --> 00:22:26.800
You can tell me,
it's not a police interrogation!

00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:31.480
You can tell me
how you feel about school.

00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.640
Perhaps school's not your thing?

00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.600
But now I'm trying to improve.

00:22:36.800 --> 00:22:39.160
- We'll try.
- I'm going to make an effort.

00:22:39.320 --> 00:22:42.400
It's a shame because if you'd
had a good second term,

00:22:42.800 --> 00:22:47.080
we could have pointed out
you were making an effort.

00:22:50.120 --> 00:22:54.600
The prefecture won't reconsider
cases if there's nothing new, see?

00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.760
It would have enabled us
to add an important point

00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.880
as that's what was used
to refuse your parents a permit.

00:23:06.840 --> 00:23:13.320
And the other issue is your
parents' French is not very good.

00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:21.920
I don't agree.

00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.560
I don't speak a lot
but I can speak a little.

00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:31.560
I've worked here
for two and a half years

00:23:32.800 --> 00:23:36.120
- so I don't agree.
- You don't agree?

00:23:37.080 --> 00:23:43.160
Because the children
have been at school 5 years.

00:23:43.360 --> 00:23:48.120
Yes, but it's the memorandum,
which we tend to forget,

00:23:48.280 --> 00:23:52.640
that allows it,
not the law.

00:23:52.800 --> 00:23:59.080
The law doesn't automatically give
parents of schoolchildren a permit.

00:23:59.280 --> 00:24:04.000
It's not the law. It's a document
that the Minister of the Interior

00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.680
sent to the prefecture
saying to examine case by case.

00:24:08.320 --> 00:24:14.480
And in addition to the condition
of 5 years in France

00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.920
and 3 years' schooling
for children,

00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:21.640
there is also a condition
called "Republican integration".

00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:26.200
And part of that
Republican integration

00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.040
is being able to speak
good French.

00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:33.840
Did you go to your appointment
at the prefecture?

00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:39.800
- Yes she went.
- Let her talk! She needs to learn!

00:24:41.560 --> 00:24:46.240
When you applied for residency,
did you go to the prefecture?

00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:50.080
Who spoke to the person
who received you?

00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:54.360
- Was it your husband or you?
- It was me.

00:24:54.520 --> 00:24:56.160
- Did he speak at all?
- Yes.

00:24:56.320 --> 00:24:59.320
My husband spoke. We both
spoke at the prefecture.

00:24:59.600 --> 00:25:01.120
- Does he speak French?
- Yes.

00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:03.720
Better than you?

00:25:04.040 --> 00:25:06.080
- Yes. Well.
- Better than you?

00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.280
Me a little. My husband yes.

00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:11.320
- He speaks well.
- Yes, he speaks well.

00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:13.440
- He speaks well?
- Yes.

00:25:13.800 --> 00:25:16.640
Because he...

00:25:17.320 --> 00:25:20.560
worked 20 years
in Switzerland.

00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:22.800
- He worked in Switzerland?
- Yes.

00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:24.840
- For how long?
- 20 years.

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:26.040
- 20 years?
- Yes.

00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.800
He spoke good French
in Switzerland, in Geneva.

00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:32.680
Ok.

00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:39.360
If the prefecture wanted
to send you back home

00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:42.440
they'd have issued an Obligation
to Leave French Territory.

00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.600
Instead, they've done something
rather original

00:25:45.800 --> 00:25:50.480
in refusing to renew
your residency

00:25:50.800 --> 00:25:54.400
but they haven't taken any steps
to send you back, ok?

00:25:54.840 --> 00:25:59.280
They're not totally closed
or they'd have sent you back.

00:25:59.600 --> 00:26:01.200
And they haven't done that.

00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:08.080
So we need to strengthen the case
to try our chances once again.

00:26:08.600 --> 00:26:09.800
Ok?

00:26:10.040 --> 00:26:14.600
I can't guarantee it'll work,
sometimes you have to insist a bit

00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:19.840
but you have to try
as you can't stay like that.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:23.480
How are you paying for your home?
With savings?

00:26:30.560 --> 00:26:34.480
We get help from an organisation.

00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:39.160
Six years in France.
No papers.

00:26:39.560 --> 00:26:43.280
No work. At home every day.
My husband too.

00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.800
The prefecture has
really cracked down.

00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.360
It's hard to pay for the flat.

00:26:51.520 --> 00:26:56.080
Electricity too. We haven't paid EDF.
It's hard.

00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.280
- Yes, I know.
- Five of us in the family.

00:26:59.800 --> 00:27:04.000
But remember we filed a procedure
with the administrative tribunal.

00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:08.560
They didn't find it shocking
that you lost your residency

00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:12.280
from one day to the next.

00:27:22.760 --> 00:27:25.520
- And how are the children?
- Ok.

00:27:25.800 --> 00:27:29.840
All 3 of them are at school.
Things are fine.

00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.960
- And your wife?
- She's better than everyone!

00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:37.960
- Better than everyone?
- Yes.

00:27:38.120 --> 00:27:39.960
That's great then.

00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:45.080
So you first came to see me
to inform me that...

00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:49.320
- you had used a false identity...
- Yes.

00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:53.840
Ok. And you could no longer
live with the situation.

00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:56.000
That's right.

00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:00.240
I can understand, as after a while
it gets unbearable.

00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:07.000
And you really regretted it
as your wife didn't know.

00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:10.520
So you had to tell her.

00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:14.640
You have a great wife,
it has to be said.

00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.720
Then what we did

00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:21.920
which is what I suggest
to my clients,

00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.320
is you denounced yourself
to the police.

00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:30.200
The police service then
carried out its investigation.

00:28:30.360 --> 00:28:32.040
We were summoned.

00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:38.680
Your family has been living
in France for a long time,

00:28:38.840 --> 00:28:43.320
with children born
and schooled in France.

00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.560
You've always worked,
there have never been any problems.

00:28:47.840 --> 00:28:52.680
So the prefecture agreed
to grant you a residency permit.

00:28:53.080 --> 00:28:56.560
But you're starting from scratch.

00:28:56.800 --> 00:29:00.120
- Yes.
- You have a new foreigner's number.

00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:03.600
And so it's residency
for a year,

00:29:03.760 --> 00:29:06.400
which you'll have to renew
every year,

00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:10.560
until you get your residency card,
which you had before, no?

00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.360
- Yes, for ten years.
- Ok. Good.

00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:21.640
So, the police report...
remember it was Brigadier Kurlier

00:29:21.800 --> 00:29:23.720
from the Border Police?

00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.520
You mentioned something
that happens a lot:

00:29:26.760 --> 00:29:31.440
you met people who told you
it was easier

00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:37.440
if you said you were Kosovan
as there was a war there.

00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:43.360
At the time, it was easier to
stay in France if you were Kosovan

00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:46.880
rather than Albanian.
That's not the case anymore.

00:29:48.840 --> 00:29:53.040
You said you entered France
clandestinely in a lorry

00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:55.080
without any papers.

00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:00.600
"And it was only in 2004 or 2005 that
you presented a Yugoslavian passport

00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:02.560
in the name of Trari."

00:30:02.760 --> 00:30:04.680
"Why the name Trari?"

00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.560
You said: "I picked a name I knew
from back home

00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:10.320
but I invented the rest."

00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:12.600
You could have chosen
a less common name!

00:30:12.760 --> 00:30:17.000
Then you were asked if you had
worked since you arrived in France.

00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.560
You replied "Yes, nearly 17 years
in various companies".

00:30:20.760 --> 00:30:25.000
When asked if you're working today
you said "No, I stopped in March 2018

00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:28.520
when my residency permit ran out
and I didn't want to renew it

00:30:28.760 --> 00:30:31.200
under a false identity."

00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.280
"Do you recognise the allegations?"
"Yes".

00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:36.360
"Do you have anything
else to declare?"

00:30:36.520 --> 00:30:41.640
"I regret not having used
my true identity."

00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:44.360
So that's it. No, there's more.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.640
"Social Security
indicates it has suffered

00:30:49.800 --> 00:30:53.760
a prejudice of ?2,301.79

00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:58.200
and reserves the right
to file a complaint."

00:30:58.600 --> 00:31:01.920
So as I explained,
everything you received

00:31:02.360 --> 00:31:06.760
in child benefits, unemployment
benefits and social security

00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:09.000
you may be asked
to reimburse.

00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.080
You're aware of that.

00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:16.280
Know that these organisations
do not respect the legal decision,

00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.440
which means that
even if you're acquitted,

00:31:19.600 --> 00:31:21.320
they'll ask you to pay

00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:25.400
because they consider
you've committed fraud

00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.840
and fraud destroys everything

00:31:30.040 --> 00:31:33.640
so they are within their rights
to demand that you pay.

00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:38.680
I don't agree but we'll
see at the hearing.

00:31:39.280 --> 00:31:44.040
I only received child benefits
from the family benefits agency

00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:47.360
but I took nothing for myself,
just child benefits.

00:31:47.600 --> 00:31:55.000
Child benefits and social security
are after us on these cases

00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.400
whereas, ok, you committed fraud

00:31:58.800 --> 00:32:03.800
but you fulfilled the conditions.

00:32:04.120 --> 00:32:07.000
You paid your social security
contributions all along.

00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:10.720
I don't see why,
even with a false identity,

00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:14.720
you couldn't use the funds.

00:32:16.120 --> 00:32:18.120
But...

00:32:20.800 --> 00:32:23.440
we really need to find a solution

00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:30.440
because I've already asked quite
a few interns to work on the case

00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:34.240
and they haven't yet come up with
a radical solution.

00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:37.120
I hope we find it by then.

00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:40.760
Would your employer
write a declaration for you?

00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:42.720
I can ask him.

00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:47.760
So he found out a year ago
about your false identity

00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:49.800
when you announced it
to everybody?

00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.200
- A year ago, yes.
- And what did he say?

00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.280
He said he'd wait for me
to get my papers in order.

00:32:58.520 --> 00:33:04.400
- Was he outraged?
- No, not at all really.

00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.400
How long have you
been working for him?

00:33:10.320 --> 00:33:14.320
I forget the date
but at least 10 years.

00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:21.120
So he could write a declaration
on your merits as an employee

00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:26.200
and if he's taking you back
under your real identity,

00:33:26.360 --> 00:33:30.960
that means he likes you
and finds you skilled.

00:33:31.840 --> 00:33:35.360
- I think so.
- Yes, of course.

00:33:48.800 --> 00:33:52.240
Hello, it's Maitre Mengus' secretary.

00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:01.240
You're just leaving now? Maitre
Mengus has back-to-back meetings.

00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:04.200
Your appointment was at 9.00 a.m.

00:34:09.560 --> 00:34:12.360
You have to let us know
when that happens.

00:34:12.520 --> 00:34:16.440
I don't know when you'll get here
but there's a client at 10.00am

00:34:16.600 --> 00:34:20.840
so I don't see how that will work and
at 11.00 she has an external meeting.

00:34:21.080 --> 00:34:24.200
How soon can you get here?

00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:43.480
A. Beguet vs. the public prosecutor.
We're writing to Mr. E.B,

00:34:43.640 --> 00:34:48.400
via registered letter
with acknowledgement of receipt.

00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.760
Dear Sir,
With reference to the above letter,

00:34:55.960 --> 00:35:02.960
I note that to date
you have not proceeded to pay

00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:07.960
my invoice
for legal fees

00:35:08.120 --> 00:35:12.800
despite the very good
result obtained.

00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.920
In the absence of payment,
I will have no choice

00:35:16.160 --> 00:35:19.640
but to seize Maitre Bâtonnier
from the Order of Lawyers

00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:23.920
to proceed with the taxation
of my legal fees

00:35:25.080 --> 00:35:29.840
and also to demand an amount
under Article 700

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.960
of the Code of Civil Procedure.
Full stop.

00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:36.000
New paragraph. I hope I will not
have to take matters to this extreme.

00:35:36.160 --> 00:35:43.280
Full stop. New paragraph.
Yours faithfully. Lawyer.

00:36:04.640 --> 00:36:06.960
Hello. This is
Maître Mengus' secretary.

00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:12.360
I'm calling as we haven't heard
from you since the letter we sent

00:36:13.720 --> 00:36:17.640
informing you of the Bas-Rhin
prefect's decision

00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:20.720
to grant you a residency permit.

00:36:22.680 --> 00:36:26.240
- You didn't receive our letter?
- And the email?

00:36:26.600 --> 00:36:29.360
What about the email?
You don't have Internet.

00:36:29.520 --> 00:36:32.080
How come we have an email
address for you?

00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:37.240
You were summoned on October 2nd.

00:36:41.120 --> 00:36:46.280
- Pass her to me.
- I'll pass you Maître Mengus.

00:36:50.040 --> 00:36:55.160
That won't do at all.
You've missed it.

00:36:55.520 --> 00:37:01.080
You need to go more often.
I wrote to you on September 27th.

00:37:02.560 --> 00:37:05.640
You told my secretary
you don't have an email address.

00:37:07.680 --> 00:37:13.360
Yes, but at least you'd have got it
the day I sent it.

00:37:13.520 --> 00:37:16.200
That's a pity if you don't check
your emails.

00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:19.960
And you had an appointment
in an office.

00:37:20.120 --> 00:37:24.240
Ok. See you later then.
Good bye.

00:37:25.080 --> 00:37:28.560
Damn it. It's always the same.

00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:34.240
You always have to be behind them.
Their emails don't work...

00:37:35.080 --> 00:37:36.920
The prefecture messes up....

00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:06.920
Thus, comma, the Administrative
Appeal Court of Nancy

00:38:07.200 --> 00:38:11.840
did not consider
as being established

00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:14.480
the intelligence services'
allegations

00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:18.240
that Mr. El-Ali played
a determining role

00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:24.120
in the youths departure
for Syria to do the Jihad

00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:26.960
and who were convicted.

00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:30.800
Full stop. New paragraph. They
thus rejected the most serious deeds.

00:38:31.200 --> 00:38:34.000
Full stop. New paragraph.
Nevertheless, comma,

00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:37.680
contrary to what the
Administrative Appeal Court of Nancy

00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.920
thought they read
in the Notes Blanches, comma,

00:38:41.080 --> 00:38:47.880
there is no incitement
to the faithful.

00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:58.440
Full stop. New paragraph.
In 2011 it was mentioned

00:38:58.600 --> 00:39:04.080
that he said the following
at the Mosque of Elsau:

00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:08.320
colon, open inverted commas,
"He prayed to God,

00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:14.040
at the Arab-Spring revolution",
close inverted commas, comma,

00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:16.560
open inverted commas "to
eradicate the enemies of Islam,

00:39:16.720 --> 00:39:19.160
Americans and Jews, one by one."
close inverted commas,

00:39:19.560 --> 00:39:23.960
"The biggest kuffars are the
American, French

00:39:24.120 --> 00:39:27.480
and Westerners governors,
who deserve to burn in hell."

00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:32.760
Underline "who deserve to burn
in hell", close inverted commas,

00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:38.280
and underline "divine justice"
and put it in bold.

00:39:38.680 --> 00:39:44.000
There is thus in what he says
no incitation to leave for the Jihad.

00:39:44.240 --> 00:39:48.920
Full stop. They are merely
curses. Full stop. New paragraph.

00:39:52.120 --> 00:39:55.480
It is also noted that

00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:01.080
Mr. El-Ali produced
many documents

00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:04.920
enabling to establish
that what he allegedly said

00:40:05.080 --> 00:40:07.720
is false,

00:40:13.560 --> 00:40:19.920
and if not misleading
in all imagined cases.

00:40:20.080 --> 00:40:22.360
Full stop. New paragraph.

00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:03.800
So Mr. Soumandé,
in fact you...

00:41:04.560 --> 00:41:07.600
suffered multiple traumas
from shell shrapnel.

00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.360
- Yes.
- Hitting both your arms,

00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:12.520
your lumbar region
and your back.

00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:13.840
- Is that right?
- Yes.

00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:17.640
I remember now, you couldn't
open or close your hand.

00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:22.240
I remember well.
Is it a little better?

00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:25.040
- It's lifelong.
- Lifelong.

00:41:28.240 --> 00:41:29.600
I see.

00:41:30.520 --> 00:41:33.560
- And the other side too.
- The other side, I see.

00:41:35.520 --> 00:41:40.400
So that happened in Chad
and you explained

00:41:41.200 --> 00:41:43.880
that the shell fell
on your house

00:41:44.040 --> 00:41:47.920
and that sadly, your wife died
following the explosion.

00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:49.440
That's right.

00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:55.760
So you had many operations
in France, reconstructions,

00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:00.280
on both hands,
and it was after that, in 2012,

00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:03.760
that you applied
for the residency permit.

00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.400
- What else? Any work?
- No, no work.

00:42:07.640 --> 00:42:10.440
- So disability benefit?
- Yes, all these years.

00:42:10.600 --> 00:42:12.840
Yes, all along.

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:15.120
- How much is it?
- 860 euros.

00:42:15.600 --> 00:42:19.280
Ok. Now, your personal
and family situation?

00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:21.520
My family situation...

00:42:21.680 --> 00:42:27.320
when I came last time
it was with my wife.

00:42:28.080 --> 00:42:32.920
I have two boys with her.

00:42:33.080 --> 00:42:35.760
- Ok, so you got married?
- Yes.

00:42:36.080 --> 00:42:40.680
- Here in France?
- On October 17th, 2014.

00:42:41.200 --> 00:42:46.600
And I was given a residency
permit one month later.

00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:52.600
- Are you still married?
- She asked for a ...

00:42:53.560 --> 00:42:55.400
- divorce.
- She wrote to child benefits

00:42:55.600 --> 00:43:01.200
to say she's separated
since August 21st.

00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:04.680
And is that true?
Are you no longer together?

00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:08.320
- You no longer live in the same...
- Right. She told me not to come.

00:43:08.680 --> 00:43:10.960
So I'd no longer be in her life.

00:43:11.120 --> 00:43:15.440
I said: "Ok, no problem".
So that's why I've come here.

00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:19.920
You leave your wife and kids
just like that?

00:43:20.080 --> 00:43:23.080
No, but the woman said:
"She doesn't want to see you".

00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:25.920
If you don't leave,
she'll make problems for you.

00:43:26.120 --> 00:43:29.120
Why doesn't she want to see you?
What happened?

00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:33.360
She decided just like that.
I don't even know why.

00:43:33.600 --> 00:43:34.880
Did you try to find out?

00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:37.600
She said she'd get me
kicked out.

00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:41.640
I asked her why and she said
she'd got me my papers.

00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:43.480
I said she didn't
get me my permit.

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.680
Hang on!

00:43:46.120 --> 00:43:48.120
The Immigration Office
notification: ok.

00:43:48.280 --> 00:43:53.360
"So then you got married
on October 17th, 2014, in Strasbourg

00:43:53.520 --> 00:43:57.080
to Mrs Berra, of French nationality."

00:43:59.080 --> 00:44:04.120
"The couple are now
no longer living together."

00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:08.760
"Letters of denounciation..."
- very interesting -

00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:13.440
"by Mrs Berra saying
you don't look after your children,

00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:18.120
who, according to his wife"
- that's typical of the prefecture -

00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:20.880
mention your wife's denunciation.
Fine words!

00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:23.680
Just magnificent!

00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:27.280
"There are insufficient receipts
to attest that

00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:29.040
he contributes to his children's

00:44:29.200 --> 00:44:30.920
maintenance and education."

00:44:31.080 --> 00:44:33.360
- So your children are French?
- Correct.

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.520
And did you put in a request
as the spouse of a French citizen?

00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:43.600
- As the parent of French children?
- No.

00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:48.680
You should have come to see me
earlier. Now you're really...

00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:54.600
Moving on! You got married again
to a compatriot?

00:44:55.640 --> 00:44:58.080
- And tell me the truth.
- Never.

00:44:58.640 --> 00:45:01.720
She's already enough for me.
She's in my head.

00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.480
Why would I add to that?

00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:10.280
So it was rejected.
We've understood.

00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:13.480
Have you told me everything?
You're not hiding anything?

00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:14.640
Nothing.

00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:16.840
If I find something,
I won't be pleased.

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:18.240
I'm hiding nothing.

00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:20.840
To defend you,
I need to know.

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.360
What about your contact
with your children?

00:45:24.040 --> 00:45:26.360
- How's it working out?
- Very well.

00:45:26.560 --> 00:45:29.040
- Do you see them?
- Every day.

00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:31.640
How? Do you go there?

00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:34.120
I go to her place.

00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:37.560
To her new flat?
Did she leave the family home?

00:45:37.720 --> 00:45:39.280
She doesn't have a new flat.

00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:42.760
She's housed in a hotel.

00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:47.080
With the kids.
And I see the kids everyday.

00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:49.600
Who pays for the hotel?

00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:54.960
She pays the hotel because
she has access to my account.

00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:01.920
She has full-time access to it,
whether I'm there or not.

00:46:02.240 --> 00:46:07.760
She can turn up at my bank
and take out what she likes.

00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.920
You could do the same thing.

00:46:10.120 --> 00:46:12.480
You go to her bank
and take all her salary.

00:46:12.640 --> 00:46:19.360
I'm not interested in that.
I just want stability.

00:46:19.520 --> 00:46:23.800
But you need money.
You're in a really nasty situation.

00:46:24.240 --> 00:46:27.920
You're going to go through
divorce proceedings.

00:46:28.080 --> 00:46:33.320
Your wife will say you married her
for papers, I've seen it all before.

00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:35.960
- You won't abandon the kids.
- No.

00:46:36.200 --> 00:46:40.800
You'll have to house them,
receive them and look after them.

00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:41.960
Ok.

00:46:42.120 --> 00:46:45.400
You have to pull yourself together
or you won't succeed.

00:46:47.200 --> 00:46:49.320
- Opara. That's the father?
- Yes.

00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:51.080
- And Anita.
- That's the mother.

00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:53.640
But that's the Spanish
family record book.

00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:58.320
- I thought it was Italy.
- No, it's Spain.

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.000
They also speak Spanish,
I think they lived there for a while.

00:47:03.200 --> 00:47:05.680
So the family record book
is valid.

00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:09.040
I've only got the first page of it.

00:47:09.640 --> 00:47:15.400
"The wife has no original
ID documents, only photocopies."

00:47:15.600 --> 00:47:19.240
- I don't even have those.
- But he wrote that so...

00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:23.000
- I think he must have papers.
- Everything's in order for him.

00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:30.400
"He will produce the ID photos...",
I think he must have papers.

00:47:31.600 --> 00:47:35.360
So, where were we?

00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:39.240
Travel permit, we've found it.

00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:43.320
Annex, found it.

00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:45.600
- Pay slips?
- Yes.

00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:51.120
Did we find the prefect's decision
on the country of return?

00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:52.560
- Have you got that?
- Yes.

00:47:52.720 --> 00:47:55.800
This goes with it.
It's the convocation.

00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:59.120
- Is that the letter?
- No.

00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:03.440
Give that back to me,
it goes with the convocation.

00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:07.160
"Please find attached the convocation
to register the request."

00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:10.840
Where could that decision be?

00:48:12.640 --> 00:48:14.520
No, that's not it.

00:48:21.200 --> 00:48:22.880
Let's carry on.

00:48:26.200 --> 00:48:30.480
I'm delighted about it,
really delighted.

00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:38.000
What you've written
is pretty strong.

00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:40.800
I don't know where you got
that from. What a nerve!

00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:44.080
It's really strong!

00:48:45.040 --> 00:48:48.560
I'm warning you, if you write
things like that, I will too.

00:48:48.720 --> 00:48:52.320
I'll exclude them
at the bar, yes I will...

00:48:53.640 --> 00:48:57.360
You can develop them orally,
but I don't want it in writing.

00:48:57.520 --> 00:48:59.200
I want nothing in writing.

00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:03.000
It's just not loyal
to do that to me.

00:49:03.240 --> 00:49:06.560
We're fellow lawyers.

00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:14.880
No, but things have to work
smoothly between us all the same.

00:49:15.040 --> 00:49:20.080
You can't fire documents like that
at us a week before the hearing.

00:49:20.240 --> 00:49:24.960
We're all busy.

00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:32.040
Yes, ok. But we don't have
to conclude that way.

00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:37.320
Because you can't just
produce a document...

00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:41.640
The hearing was arranged
in February.

00:49:42.160 --> 00:49:44.440
You can't add something
on the 19th.

00:49:44.600 --> 00:49:46.840
This morning
I was at the court of appeal.

00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:49.960
Now I have to counter
your stay motion.

00:49:50.120 --> 00:49:52.680
I don't have time
to meet the client.

00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:56.160
No! Postponing
is the easy way out.

00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:59.400
No, I don't care.

00:49:59.560 --> 00:50:03.480
Whatever happens,
we plead the case.

00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:07.360
I'm not leaving the tribunal
until the case has been pleaded.

00:50:09.200 --> 00:50:13.160
It will be tight but it'll be
to your client's detriment.

00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:15.080
I don't care.

00:50:17.120 --> 00:50:22.760
Ok, but I'm warning you,
I'll discard your statement.

00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:28.000
I'll plead the case at whatever cost,
lying down if I have to.

00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:31.840
I'll grab onto my desk,
I just don't care.

00:50:32.640 --> 00:50:36.320
At some point,
we have to move forward.

00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:40.640
Case files aren't meant to sit
with lawyers for 6 years.

00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:43.040
Don't you agree?

00:50:50.640 --> 00:50:57.720
For them, the character of Mr. El-Ali
is what they've read in the press.

00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:01.680
They don't have
all the other elements.

00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:03.640
As we've never sought
media coverage,

00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:09.160
all they've got is a radicalised Imam
involved with the Bataclan

00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:13.240
and with the young people
leaving for Syria.

00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:16.000
Because that's what they
read in the press.

00:51:16.160 --> 00:51:21.320
And for them, "Libération"
is a newspaper of reference.

00:51:22.040 --> 00:51:25.840
We should have contacted
the media about the case,

00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:29.640
setting out the details
in his favour,

00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:33.400
so they got media coverage,
and following that

00:51:33.560 --> 00:51:36.320
he could have done his hunger strike,
if he wanted to.

00:51:36.560 --> 00:51:42.880
I've just had a row
with a journalist.

00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.440
I told them that the story
of a Bataclan terrorist

00:51:47.600 --> 00:51:49.880
radicalised by him
is fake news.

00:51:50.040 --> 00:51:53.720
You're reacting like all the press,
covering fake news.

00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:57.600
It doesn't even come from
the notes blanches, see?

00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.640
For them, if it comes from
"Libération", it's all good.

00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:08.600
So we're going to have to fight
on the media front

00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:12.880
as well as having to fight
on the legal front.

00:52:13.040 --> 00:52:17.640
And I already have many proceedings
underway. It's a lot to carry off.

00:52:18.520 --> 00:52:21.280
I have to manage proceedings
all over the place:

00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:25.480
the Bordeaux Court, Council of State,
the Prosecution...

00:52:25.640 --> 00:52:29.080
The Prosecution dropped
the complaint we filed to them.

00:52:29.240 --> 00:52:34.280
I won't let that go,
but the proceedings are never-ending.

00:52:50.240 --> 00:52:54.240
Ok, my dear,
your mission is to...

00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:02.200
attach the requests
to their email proof of receipt

00:53:02.560 --> 00:53:05.560
and their postal proof of receipt.

00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:10.520
Pass that one back,
I'll put it in here.

00:53:12.200 --> 00:53:15.160
- So I put all that with these?
- Right.

00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:18.600
But you have to photocopy them
one by one.

00:53:20.600 --> 00:53:22.720
They must be ready
by tomorrow morning.

00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:28.760
I'll be there at 5.00 am,
they have to be ready.

00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:33.920
But you'll have to change
the numbering on the annexes

00:53:35.600 --> 00:53:38.240
because they don't match.

00:53:38.600 --> 00:53:40.840
Should I write on them?

00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:43.200
You change them
in the appeal

00:53:43.720 --> 00:53:46.520
then you put my stamp
on them

00:53:47.680 --> 00:53:50.000
and you write 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
until the end.

00:53:53.120 --> 00:53:55.120
You're a bit sleepy today, Stella.

00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:57.640
I don't really know what you...

00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:11.520
It's for plans to get married
to my Algerian boyfriend,

00:55:11.680 --> 00:55:12.960
who's currently living in Algeria.

00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:16.000
I have two main
areas of questions.

00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:21.320
The first regards which country
we should get married in.

00:55:21.720 --> 00:55:27.920
I imagine the biggest issue
is getting a visa to come to France

00:55:28.200 --> 00:55:29.560
for the wedding.

00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:34.320
If we don't manage that
and have to marry in Algeria

00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:37.760
I have quite a few questions
on the implications of that.

00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:42.800
How does it work with the
very different legislation there,

00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:46.280
especially for women's rights
and how all that...

00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:48.080
What do you mean "women's rights"?

00:55:49.080 --> 00:55:55.040
I looked through the Algerian
Family Code, as well as I could,

00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:58.880
and whether it's regarding
divorce rights

00:55:59.040 --> 00:56:03.360
or questions of tutelage,

00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:07.000
in France there's the notion
of parental authority.

00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:12.200
Algerian law distinguishes between
custodial rights...

00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:14.720
It looks like you're
taking things very far.

00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:16.960
Well you see...

00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:19.480
The marriage has to last
a while before...

00:56:19.640 --> 00:56:22.600
But in any case,
if you get married in Algeria,

00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:27.440
you'll have to get the
marriage certificate transcribed.

00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:32.400
And we observe
- although I'm not sure of the stats

00:56:32.560 --> 00:56:34.640
but in the cases I deal with -

00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:40.960
that visas frequently get blocked

00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:47.760
on suspicion
of a fraudulent marriage.

00:56:48.200 --> 00:56:50.320
You wouldn't be under suspicion,
of course,

00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:54.360
as, being French, you have nothing
in particular to gain,

00:56:54.520 --> 00:56:57.800
apart from the desire
to live with your husband,

00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:02.560
but it's the foreign spouse
who is suspected.

00:57:03.320 --> 00:57:05.280
Being aware of that,
as you are,

00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:09.160
we can gather proof
of conjugal intentions.

00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:12.440
They'll ask you to prove
contact, such as trips.

00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:16.160
They'll ask you questions about
the circumstances of the marriage:

00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:19.080
how you met:
"By Internet" is often...

00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:21.360
Is that your case?

00:57:22.600 --> 00:57:26.440
No, we met during
the first trip I made.

00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:28.640
- To Algeria?
- Yes.

00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:33.520
- Why did you go there?
- For a holiday in South Algeria.

00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:37.520
I see. It's rather rare
to go on holiday to Algeria.

00:57:37.680 --> 00:57:41.560
Yes, but I went
on the recommendation of a friend.

00:57:41.720 --> 00:57:46.840
Ok, that's in your favour,
because when it's via Internet

00:57:47.160 --> 00:57:51.160
foreigners are suspected
of poaching

00:57:51.680 --> 00:57:57.360
and of trying to link up with
French women and men,

00:57:57.520 --> 00:57:59.200
in order to obtain
residency papers,

00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:01.280
more often French women.

00:58:01.560 --> 00:58:05.160
You also need to know
sometimes they interview both of you

00:58:05.600 --> 00:58:07.280
respectively.

00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:11.160
You'll be interviewed
by the French border police,

00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:15.800
him by the consulate
to see if your answers match.

00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:19.160
If you're unfortunate enough
not to say the same thing....

00:58:19.640 --> 00:58:22.520
So you see,
it's all quite intrusive.

00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:28.600
The other option is to...

00:58:29.680 --> 00:58:32.880
celebrate the marriage in France,
which also requires a visa.

00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:37.160
He can request a short-term visa.

00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:40.280
He comes over
and he stays.

00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:43.520
He applies for a residency permit
once he's here.

00:58:43.680 --> 00:58:45.520
He won't need to travel
back and forth

00:58:45.680 --> 00:58:48.600
as Algerians don't need
a long-stay visa

00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.560
to request a residency permit.

00:58:51.720 --> 00:58:53.880
It requires just
a normal entry.

00:58:54.040 --> 00:58:57.800
So he gets the visa
just to celebrate the marriage,

00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:03.480
he stays, and subsequently
obtains a residency permit.

00:59:08.040 --> 00:59:11.040
Looking at it that way,

00:59:11.800 --> 00:59:18.760
it seems more manageable
to envisage a wedding in France.

00:59:19.200 --> 00:59:21.160
I advise it.

00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:27.520
So I'll leave out all the questions
on getting married in Algeria

00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:36.040
and move on to general questions,
I've understood the visas...

00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:49.680
I have a question on who I should see
for advice on...

00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:55.800
He'd like us to also have
a religious wedding.

00:59:57.680 --> 01:00:02.320
For the moment,
I'm neither for nor against.

01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:06.720
Do you know what type of person
I should go to for advice

01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:11.160
on what it would entail for me?

01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:18.920
It's a question of religion.

01:00:19.560 --> 01:00:21.840
If you don't belong
to the Muslim religion,

01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:23.120
it has no impact.

01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:26.520
In any case, you know
how divorce works.

01:00:26.680 --> 01:00:28.960
There's nothing formal.

01:00:29.120 --> 01:00:33.880
The husband repudiates his wife,
putting an end to the marriage.

01:00:34.160 --> 01:00:35.680
And that's the end of it.

01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:41.120
Those who really adhere
to the faith

01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:44.280
will say they can't remarry
unless their husband repudiates them.

01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:46.040
But you?

01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:50.040
- It has no impact for me?
- Correct.

01:00:50.200 --> 01:00:53.320
That's what I wanted to know.

01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:04.160
I can see you're very organised,
very methodical.

01:01:04.600 --> 01:01:07.400
It's better that way,
as it's a bit complicated.

01:01:07.560 --> 01:01:08.800
It's not easy.

01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:13.000
And I prefer to take
the initiative

01:01:13.160 --> 01:01:20.720
even if I have no more reason
for mistrust than in any other union

01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:24.760
but I think forewarned is forearmed

01:01:24.920 --> 01:01:30.880
when taking a path
that is less trodden.

01:01:33.200 --> 01:01:35.920
What about money?

01:01:36.080 --> 01:01:38.520
Money...debt...

01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:42.920
... at home ...

01:01:43.080 --> 01:01:45.360
...with me...

01:01:46.560 --> 01:01:49.480
I don't understand.
Start again.

01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:50.640
What?

01:01:50.800 --> 01:01:54.200
- He lent me ?1,000.
- Who lent you ?1,000?

01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:56.880
- Somebody.
- That's good.

01:01:57.280 --> 01:02:00.480
What is your financial situation?

01:02:00.640 --> 01:02:02.760
Disability allowance?
Welfare benefits?

01:02:02.920 --> 01:02:07.440
I get disability allowance now.

01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:10.720
And is the family benefits agency
deducting money from you?

01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:15.680
The money.......?16,000....

01:02:16.080 --> 01:02:18.280
I don't know why
I have to pay ?16,000.

01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:21.000
No, but are they deducting
money from you?

01:02:21.160 --> 01:02:24.080
You don't know, ok.

01:02:24.240 --> 01:02:28.040
- I'll ask them.
- Yes but ?16,000?

01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:31.400
Before it was ?32,000
now it's ?16,000.

01:02:31.680 --> 01:02:33.720
A little longer and we'll be there!

01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:36.880
- But...
- How will I be able to pay it?

01:02:39.080 --> 01:02:40.360
You mustn't pay it.

01:02:41.160 --> 01:02:43.440
And what about
your noisy neighbour?

01:02:43.600 --> 01:02:45.520
He's still at it.

01:02:46.840 --> 01:02:50.240
He makes noise
at 2 or 3 in the morning.

01:02:50.640 --> 01:02:53.520
- What sort of noise?
- He's on the 6th floor.

01:02:53.720 --> 01:02:55.640
I know, but what
sort of noise?

01:02:55.920 --> 01:02:58.600
What sort of noise
at 3 in the morning?

01:02:59.680 --> 01:03:03.520
It's as though
he's bowling on the tiles.

01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:07.720
It hurts my ears.

01:03:08.160 --> 01:03:12.920
Can you record the noise on
your phone and play it to me?

01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:16.040
- I don't know.
- You don't know?

01:03:19.200 --> 01:03:24.120
It's torture,
like death row.

01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:31.160
- And could you move?
- I'd like to.

01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:34.200
- Have you put in a request?
- Yes I have.

01:03:36.080 --> 01:03:40.880
So things are going ok,
apart from the Family Benefits debt,

01:03:41.080 --> 01:03:44.800
which might be suspended,
we'll see.

01:03:45.160 --> 01:03:47.760
- Your residency permit is fine.
- Yes, that's good.

01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:50.680
Great, we made it
in the end!

01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:51.960
Yes I know.

01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:55.320
- It took a while but...
- Never mind, stay strong!

01:03:55.560 --> 01:03:58.200
- You don't regret it?
- Yes I do a bit.

01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.040
You regret having
undergone the proceedings

01:04:01.200 --> 01:04:05.360
to establish your identity?
It wasn't easy, was it?

01:04:06.640 --> 01:04:09.840
They didn't let you off lightly.

01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:11.840
- But now it's over.
- It's over.

01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:19.000
Now promise me you won't
miss the boat again on this

01:04:19.560 --> 01:04:24.520
because it took us 8 months
to get it sorted again.

01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:29.320
Find a friend who has a computer
and Internet to do the application

01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:31.520
- by April.
- April?

01:04:32.680 --> 01:04:36.080
Do the necessary and I'll look
into the Family Benefits issue.

01:04:36.240 --> 01:04:37.800
Thanks very much, Maître Mengus.

01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:40.320
- You still owe me money.
- Yes, I'll pay.

01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:44.120
We'll see about that next year.
Put some money aside for me.

01:04:44.360 --> 01:04:47.800
I'll put some money aside for you
and for a holiday!

01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:50.040
And for a holiday!

01:04:52.280 --> 01:04:55.400
See you soon. Take care.

01:06:17.600 --> 01:06:23.920
The case has a fair few elements,

01:06:24.080 --> 01:06:28.040
issues that we find
in cases of medical responsibility.

01:06:28.240 --> 01:06:31.200
- Are the files colour-coded?
- No.

01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:33.840
The subdividers are colour-coded.

01:06:35.160 --> 01:06:37.240
- Did you notice?
- No.

01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:41.560
- The subdividers there...
- I didn't notice their colour code.

01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:45.560
Pink is proceedings,
yellow is correspondence,

01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:51.760
blue is evidence, my evidence
is subdivided again inside,

01:06:52.480 --> 01:06:54.040
the opposing evidence.

01:06:54.200 --> 01:07:00.480
And purple is accounting
or legal aid: legal fees and aid.

01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:05.080
- Ok, so the blue one's not for...
- No I just chose it randomly

01:07:05.240 --> 01:07:08.080
because I like to use
different colours

01:07:08.240 --> 01:07:10.840
to help me memorise
the various files.

01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:13.840
If they're all the same colour,
it gets tricky.

01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:10.800
Damn it!
It's all falling apart.

01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:16.280
How can I put it? It validated
the expulsion proceedings

01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:21.120
but not for all the acts for which
he was under house arrest.

01:08:22.040 --> 01:08:23.080
Ok?

01:08:23.480 --> 01:08:28.680
No, remember,
there were two reasons,

01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:34.000
the preachings and the decisive role
he played

01:08:34.160 --> 01:08:37.520
in the youngsters' departure
to Syria.

01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:40.520
That was not retained.

01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:43.720
Just the preaching.

01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:50.160
Let me explain something,
because the whole case is scandalous,

01:08:50.960 --> 01:08:55.920
I want to initiate
a real enquiry procedure.

01:08:56.080 --> 01:09:00.240
We filed a complaint with the
Prosecution for false allegations,

01:09:01.080 --> 01:09:05.520
which dismissed it
without leading an enquiry.

01:09:06.040 --> 01:09:09.960
They're refusing an enquiry
into false allegations,

01:09:10.120 --> 01:09:13.840
they don't want to engage
the penal procedure.

01:09:14.160 --> 01:09:16.280
It's a total denial of justice.

01:09:16.440 --> 01:09:21.960
Judges no longer review things,
they just copy and paste

01:09:22.640 --> 01:09:26.800
but we have a criminal judge
who can carry out investigations

01:09:26.960 --> 01:09:31.200
and I want to capitalise on that
judge to reveal the truth

01:09:31.360 --> 01:09:36.680
because if the defendant
is prepared to die tomorrow

01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:40.600
to draw attention to his situation,

01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:43.680
there's clearly a problem
with the case.

01:10:06.480 --> 01:10:09.360
We haven't got a great judge.

01:10:12.440 --> 01:10:14.760
I'm checking but...

01:10:15.320 --> 01:10:17.720
He's not very nice.

01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:27.320
In any case, I think that
what my wife did....

01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:30.080
she knows exactly
what she's doing.

01:10:30.240 --> 01:10:34.720
- It's not normal, all of a sudden.
- I don't know.

01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:41.800
Maybe because she has 5 children
and I get in the way of her life.

01:10:44.400 --> 01:10:49.600
Otherwise I just
don't understand.

01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:53.840
Remember, she suspects you
of having another wife in Chad.

01:10:54.400 --> 01:10:59.680
It's not true. When you've been
married for over 5 years...

01:10:59.880 --> 01:11:01.240
Why now?

01:11:02.320 --> 01:11:10.720
Maybe she couldn't stand you
looking after your child in Chad?

01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:12.960
I don't know.

01:11:13.120 --> 01:11:19.000
The problem is that
when I go and see the children

01:11:22.400 --> 01:11:28.440
the mother is always there and
I admit that I still care about her.

01:11:29.360 --> 01:11:31.320
Well then...

01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:34.440
- If there's still love...
- Yes.

01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:37.680
- Try!
- I do try, but...

01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:40.080
- It doesn't work.
- No.

01:11:40.320 --> 01:11:46.720
Do you think I like being
treated this way?

01:11:47.240 --> 01:11:52.560
I have a country,
I have my dignity,

01:11:52.720 --> 01:11:56.280
I've never had a problem
in this country,

01:11:56.440 --> 01:12:02.160
I've been here 12 years,
I've never filed a complaint.

01:12:02.440 --> 01:12:05.400
Nobody has ever filed
a complaint against me.

01:12:05.640 --> 01:12:09.440
- I know.
- I'm not like that.

01:12:10.280 --> 01:12:13.800
I've had enough problems
in life.

01:12:14.080 --> 01:12:16.400
I don't need any more.

01:12:16.800 --> 01:12:19.840
I'm taking sleeping tablets,

01:12:20.120 --> 01:12:21.560
one and a half.

01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:24.800
Some people take one half
and don't wake up.

01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:30.200
I take one and a half and still
can't sleep more than 4 hours.

01:12:30.360 --> 01:12:31.680
It's been 12 years.

01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:37.240
Since 2008 until today, I haven't
slept 5 hours in a row.

01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:43.160
- It's hard, I know.
- And since I've had this problem

01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:48.880
I wake up 2 or 3 times in the night
and I don't know why.

01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:52.480
I can't sleep even though
I've taken sleeping pills.

01:12:52.640 --> 01:12:57.080
- It's post-traumatic stress.
- I'm tired.

01:12:57.600 --> 01:13:01.240
Morally and physically tired.

01:13:01.440 --> 01:13:04.520
- In fact, I'm exhausted.
- I understand.

01:13:05.120 --> 01:13:11.480
So if I do find a solution
back home

01:13:12.120 --> 01:13:18.760
I swear I wouldn't spend
another second here.

01:13:20.080 --> 01:13:24.080
Without all the operations I've had
my hand wouldn't be like this today.

01:13:24.240 --> 01:13:29.760
I'd be even more disabled
than I am today.

01:13:29.920 --> 01:13:33.880
And all the psychological aid
I've had.

01:13:34.160 --> 01:13:36.000
We don't have
that in Chad.

01:13:36.240 --> 01:13:41.680
If we did, I'd be better there
as I'd have friends and family.

01:13:42.920 --> 01:13:46.160
The only family I have
is my wife and children.

01:13:46.880 --> 01:13:50.080
If you still love her,
maybe things can work out...

01:13:50.280 --> 01:13:51.800
- I do love her.
- ...with time.

01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:55.240
I love her but when
she's against something

01:13:55.440 --> 01:13:57.080
she's really against it.

01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:00.960
And I don't want any more
problems with her.

01:14:01.120 --> 01:14:04.880
When you have a problem with her

01:14:05.240 --> 01:14:07.560
you just want to kill yourself.

01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:09.880
That's love!

01:14:10.040 --> 01:14:11.600
Believe me.

01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:14.080
Ok, first we'll deal with
the papers.

01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:18.920
And then we'll deal with love...

01:14:19.560 --> 01:14:20.840
When is the hearing?

01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:23.000
In less than 2 weeks.

01:14:23.480 --> 01:14:26.920
I really can't take any more.

01:14:27.440 --> 01:14:30.360
Believe me. And I've only got
one child in Chad.

01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:34.240
I've left him there. Now I'll leave
two here and go back to Chad?

01:14:34.400 --> 01:14:38.000
You won't let anybody down.
Don't worry, we'll manage.

01:16:05.760 --> 01:16:08.400
I find it amusing.

01:16:08.560 --> 01:16:14.280
You don't have the perspective of a
foreigners' human rights defender.

01:16:14.520 --> 01:16:21.080
To come and tell me she had a kid
on purpose with somebody French,

01:16:21.240 --> 01:16:22.360
where did you get that?

01:16:22.520 --> 01:16:25.320
- I don't know. It's an impression.
- It's a prejudice.

01:16:25.480 --> 01:16:29.320
Yes, I admit I have that prejudice

01:16:29.480 --> 01:16:33.880
but I have absolutely no idea
about it in particular.

01:16:34.040 --> 01:16:38.960
I'm just saying the father doesn't
really look after his daughter.

01:16:39.160 --> 01:16:41.800
There were times,
as you mentioned in the report...

01:16:42.280 --> 01:16:46.600
So for you, the fact she wanted
a good future for her child,

01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:50.560
meant she chose somebody French,
thinking:

01:16:50.720 --> 01:16:53.120
"My child will have a good future".

01:16:53.280 --> 01:16:58.120
I don't think she's interested
in the man, from what I see.

01:16:58.320 --> 01:17:02.000
- Strange that...
- It's the impression I get.

01:17:02.240 --> 01:17:05.520
Just one thing though:

01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:09.240
in France many women have a baby
on their own, because they want one.

01:17:09.400 --> 01:17:13.440
Yes, I think if she just wanted
a baby with a French man...

01:17:13.960 --> 01:17:19.080
What makes you say she chose the man
for his nationality?

01:17:21.360 --> 01:17:24.640
Once again, for her child's good.

01:17:25.120 --> 01:17:28.080
I don't care about that.
What makes you say, in this case,

01:17:28.240 --> 01:17:30.400
she chose the man
for his French nationality?

01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:32.440
- Nothing.
- So it's clearly a prejudice.

01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:35.160
You haven't experienced it yourself.

01:17:35.320 --> 01:17:37.720
I've worked in family law

01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.160
and I've seen fathers that don't
look after their kids at all.

01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:45.720
There are loads of them, they don't
pay a thing in maintenance.

01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:50.600
Some even orchestrate insolvability
to avoid paying the mother.

01:17:51.320 --> 01:17:56.120
Even if they have to appear in court
for non-representation.

01:17:56.320 --> 01:18:00.120
Residency papers are not necessarily
involved, it can be 2 French people,

01:18:00.280 --> 01:18:04.040
Franco-French with residency,
with nothing at stake behind.

01:18:04.280 --> 01:18:05.840
These situations exist.

01:18:06.280 --> 01:18:09.760
But people are suspicious
when dealing foreigners,

01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:12.680
who are seeking papers.

01:18:12.920 --> 01:18:16.920
I wanted you to read it,
to know if you are shocked

01:18:17.280 --> 01:18:21.960
that a French administrative body

01:18:22.120 --> 01:18:29.960
states that a French child
has better things to do

01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:34.840
than living in France
and so should go back abroad.

01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:36.920
Doesn't that shock you?

01:18:37.240 --> 01:18:42.840
But also, in the prefect's decision,
the child is not directly targeted.

01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:46.080
It boils down to the same thing.

01:18:46.280 --> 01:18:48.720
- It targets the mother.
- Yes, it targets the mother

01:18:48.880 --> 01:18:53.000
but they know very well the mother
has custody of the kid who's a minor.

01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:59.080
They throw out the mother
and by extension the child.

01:18:59.440 --> 01:19:03.120
The higher interests of a child
are not considered the same way

01:19:03.280 --> 01:19:07.440
depending on whether they're
foreign or French.

01:19:07.600 --> 01:19:12.320
The prefecture treats her more like
a second-class French citizen.

01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:17.840
But that's not what leaps
out at me, I don't know why.

01:19:19.000 --> 01:19:23.320
I can't say it shocked me, it's in
keeping with foreign national rights.

01:19:23.680 --> 01:19:28.040
Right, but the problem with
the rights of foreign nationals

01:19:28.200 --> 01:19:31.040
is we get used to the worst.

01:19:31.200 --> 01:19:33.960
Nothing shocks people
any more.

01:19:34.280 --> 01:19:40.360
And it's a failing I reproach
many magistrates with:

01:19:40.640 --> 01:19:46.240
nothing shocks them, it's all
normalised. And I'm shocked

01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:54.520
because it's a colonialist
point of view.

01:19:55.160 --> 01:19:59.280
You've got the native French
and the indigenous French.

01:20:00.320 --> 01:20:02.960
It's like a reconstitution
of colonial law.

01:20:03.120 --> 01:20:07.720
That's the way I see it,
in this case and others,

01:20:07.880 --> 01:20:10.720
it's not just an issue
in this case.

01:20:11.480 --> 01:20:16.520
With, as you said yourself,
second-class citizens.

01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:24.480
Right, I think we've got
everything else we need.

01:22:27.720 --> 01:22:32.000
Do you have any other questions
about February's criminal hearing?

01:22:32.440 --> 01:22:36.120
- It's my first time in court.
- It can be intimidating.

01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:38.400
It's quite formal.

01:22:40.120 --> 01:22:44.560
The judges will be seated
opposite you

01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:48.400
then on your left,
or sometimes your right,

01:22:48.680 --> 01:22:51.960
in the courtroom,
you have the public prosecutor.

01:22:52.280 --> 01:23:00.160
He's a representative or guardian
of the interests of society.

01:23:00.640 --> 01:23:03.720
The judge will ask
you various questions

01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:06.720
and remind the court
why you are there.

01:23:06.880 --> 01:23:10.520
He'll question you to get
a better understanding of the case.

01:23:10.680 --> 01:23:14.600
If there are any grey areas,
he may try to elucidate them.

01:23:14.920 --> 01:23:18.920
I don't think your case has any grey
areas, your declarations are clear.

01:23:19.200 --> 01:23:23.600
You've always said the same thing.
He'll ask a few questions like mine:

01:23:23.760 --> 01:23:26.040
How you come to an amount
of ?700?

01:23:26.920 --> 01:23:31.320
Who told you that?
... just trying to find out more.

01:23:31.480 --> 01:23:34.000
- To find out more about the case.
- Yes.

01:23:34.640 --> 01:23:35.680
No problem.

01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:39.760
Then the public prosecutor
will pronounce his requisition.

01:23:40.280 --> 01:23:47.480
In other words, he'll say what
sentence he thinks you should serve.

01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:52.720
Then finally, the lawyer
will speak

01:23:53.320 --> 01:23:55.320
to defend you.

01:23:56.280 --> 01:23:57.440
To defend you!

01:23:57.600 --> 01:24:00.080
We'll see what happens
at the hearing.

01:24:00.320 --> 01:24:04.200
If there's no acquittal, due to the
prescription - I'm not too worried -

01:24:04.360 --> 01:24:10.360
the offence exists, but given
your total lack of criminal record...

01:24:11.840 --> 01:24:14.800
You've always worked
since you arrived in France.

01:24:15.480 --> 01:24:19.520
You made your false declaration
in a highly specific context,

01:24:21.320 --> 01:24:24.840
I'm not really worried about
the sentence.

01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:28.280
You won't get a warrant,
you won't go to prison

01:24:28.800 --> 01:24:33.680
but if you do get sentenced,
I hope it will be reasonable

01:24:34.240 --> 01:24:37.440
and that it will be adapted
to your situation.

01:24:37.640 --> 01:24:42.720
The principle of personalisation
of sanctions is stipulated by law.

01:24:43.960 --> 01:24:47.640
I'm not too worried,
but what will happen will happen.

01:24:47.880 --> 01:24:53.080
I knew I'd have to pay for it
one way or another.

01:24:54.160 --> 01:24:57.280
That's something you can
explain to the court.

01:24:57.480 --> 01:25:02.200
That you are prepared to assume
the sentence you might get

01:25:02.600 --> 01:25:07.120
as you know full well you are
accountable for your actions.

01:25:07.600 --> 01:25:12.120
It's always important to hear
that coming from you.

01:25:12.280 --> 01:25:15.560
It doesn't have the same
impact if it comes from me.

01:25:17.000 --> 01:25:21.120
The court takes note
when it's the client's words.

01:25:21.280 --> 01:25:24.240
And then I'll follow up
in my own words.

01:25:25.760 --> 01:25:30.400
- Better!
- Different. Yours will be very good.

01:25:31.040 --> 01:25:34.760
They are a good reflection
of your experience.

01:25:39.160 --> 01:25:43.640
I thought he knew the case well,
but not at all

01:25:44.120 --> 01:25:46.600
- so I had to 1)
- Repeat the lot.

01:25:46.760 --> 01:25:49.440
Repeat the lot. And 2),
give him a lesson in law.

01:25:50.240 --> 01:25:53.320
I don't know what it'll achieve,
he seemed to be laughing

01:25:54.440 --> 01:25:58.360
at the deluge
of legal arguments.

01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:02.320
He said "Thank you
for the exhaustive defence".

01:26:02.560 --> 01:26:04.360
We'll see where it leads.

01:26:04.520 --> 01:26:07.520
I pleaded against Frayer
this morning.

01:26:08.440 --> 01:26:10.120
- You know there's no hope?
- No hope.

01:26:10.400 --> 01:26:13.080
But I managed to make him smile.

01:26:13.280 --> 01:26:14.960
That's all.

01:26:16.160 --> 01:26:19.200
I managed that too once,
and it did no good at all.

01:26:20.400 --> 01:26:24.400
The very sweet
Franco-Algerian couple.

01:26:24.600 --> 01:26:27.440
They're lovely,
I'm very fond of them.

01:26:27.680 --> 01:26:31.880
With an age difference
of about 15 years.

01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:35.400
- The woman is older?
- Yes, but you can hardly tell.

01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:38.400
But there's no regular income.

01:26:38.560 --> 01:26:42.360
When I saw the judge was Frayer,
we all looked at each other.

01:26:42.520 --> 01:26:45.760
My colleagues and I thought: "Damn,
we're going to plead for nothing".

01:26:46.040 --> 01:26:48.560
Who was the rapporteur?
Was it him?

01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:52.880
No, the rapporteur was the guy
on the right.

01:26:53.280 --> 01:26:56.120
It was an all-male line-up,

01:26:56.280 --> 01:27:01.160
a big tall man,
who seems slightly humane

01:27:02.200 --> 01:27:03.840
and seems a little attentive.

01:27:04.080 --> 01:27:08.640
But we all know attentive judges
won't necessarily let them off.

01:27:08.960 --> 01:27:13.440
- I interrupted, you were saying?
- I was saying...

01:27:13.720 --> 01:27:17.920
What time is it? Don't say it's
another missed appointment.

01:27:18.080 --> 01:27:20.000
No, it's not 11.00 yet.

01:27:52.080 --> 01:27:54.080
Right then.

01:27:55.160 --> 01:27:57.600
What's happened to my appointment?

01:27:57.760 --> 01:28:01.200
What's up with them all this morning?
They're not coming.

01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:50.880
For example, here's somebody
who didn't go to school...

01:28:51.200 --> 01:28:56.200
so they won't ask very difficult
questions but some aren't easy

01:28:56.360 --> 01:29:02.280
for people who haven't been
to school, particularly in France.

01:29:03.000 --> 01:29:06.640
So, the motto?

01:29:06.800 --> 01:29:10.000
- Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
- Ok.

01:29:10.840 --> 01:29:14.720
The body that votes
laws in France?

01:29:16.480 --> 01:29:18.800
The body that votes...

01:29:20.600 --> 01:29:25.200
- Does that mean authorisation?
- Yes, where are laws voted?

01:29:26.200 --> 01:29:27.800
- Democracy?
- No.

01:29:28.240 --> 01:29:33.640
Democracy is a regime, a system,
not a place where laws are voted.

01:29:33.880 --> 01:29:35.440
Each country can have...

01:29:36.280 --> 01:29:38.080
- Sorry?
- The government?

01:29:38.240 --> 01:29:40.120
No, it's not the government.

01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:43.600
Even if they do make laws

01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:46.400
but the government
doesn't vote on the laws.

01:29:46.560 --> 01:29:48.760
- The president?
- No...

01:29:49.960 --> 01:29:52.520
- The people?
- No.

01:29:52.840 --> 01:29:55.480
- The department?
- No.

01:30:01.320 --> 01:30:04.640
- It's the parliament.
- I wasn't far off.

01:30:04.800 --> 01:30:08.440
You have the National Assembly
and the Senate.

01:30:08.680 --> 01:30:11.440
- The department?
- No, not the department at all.

01:30:11.600 --> 01:30:16.960
Don't look at her paper.
What I'm asking isn't on there.

01:30:17.400 --> 01:30:22.400
- Sorry, it's just so...
- No! What's a department?

01:30:22.560 --> 01:30:24.360
- Cite a department.
- The parliament.

01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:26.880
No. Name a department.

01:30:27.720 --> 01:30:32.440
France is divided into several parts,
into departments, ok?

01:30:32.760 --> 01:30:35.880
There are 100 departments
in France.

01:30:36.040 --> 01:30:38.760
The Bas-Rhin and the Haut-Rhin
are not the same thing.

01:30:39.000 --> 01:30:44.080
So if departments vote things,

01:30:44.240 --> 01:30:48.040
it's for the Haut-Rhin,
not for the whole of France, ok?

01:30:48.400 --> 01:30:50.480
Next: name a river.

01:30:53.120 --> 01:30:55.040
- Do you know?
- No.

01:30:55.200 --> 01:30:58.840
You see the type of question...
but if he fails just that,

01:30:59.280 --> 01:31:02.320
they won't refuse him nationality.

01:31:03.640 --> 01:31:08.040
They won't expect him to answer them
all but it's the type of question.

01:31:08.880 --> 01:31:14.200
What does secularism
mean to you?

01:31:14.360 --> 01:31:17.680
You'll almost certainly
get that question.

01:31:17.840 --> 01:31:19.640
- Secularism?
- Yes.

01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:22.240
- Exceptional freedom.
- No.

01:31:25.240 --> 01:31:28.240
- Secularism? Can I reply?
- No.

01:31:28.520 --> 01:31:31.560
You're not the one who'll
be asked the questions.

01:31:32.080 --> 01:31:36.320
It's the sort of question they'll ask
so I'm just checking. Secularism.

01:31:37.680 --> 01:31:42.480
- Respect for the citizen.
- You're nearly there.

01:31:42.760 --> 01:31:46.120
Are the citizens not
all the same?

01:31:46.840 --> 01:31:51.240
- Freedom for the... freedom...
- Yes?

01:31:51.760 --> 01:31:53.160
Of what?

01:31:53.400 --> 01:31:58.400
Don't look at her. She won't be
there on the day of the interview.

01:31:59.160 --> 01:32:00.880
Freedom of expression.

01:32:01.120 --> 01:32:05.320
- Freedom of expression.
- Yes. Expression of what?

01:32:06.680 --> 01:32:10.280
- Free people...
- But free from what?

01:32:11.120 --> 01:32:14.880
It's the fact that France
is secular,

01:32:15.840 --> 01:32:19.280
not Catholic, not Protestant or
anything else, it's not religious.

01:32:19.520 --> 01:32:21.280
That's the basic meaning.

01:32:21.440 --> 01:32:25.960
But the state respects the
religious beliefs of its citizens.

01:32:26.560 --> 01:32:31.880
It cannot stop you
from expressing your religion

01:32:32.040 --> 01:32:37.480
or dressing in a certain way
according to your religious rites.

01:32:38.840 --> 01:32:42.600
Remember that, because they
almost always ask that.

01:32:44.680 --> 01:32:47.800
What does freedom mean?

01:32:50.120 --> 01:32:51.200
Freedom?

01:32:51.360 --> 01:32:55.680
All human beings are free.

01:32:56.000 --> 01:32:58.760
And do you really think
you are free?

01:33:01.520 --> 01:33:03.320
And equality?

01:33:03.760 --> 01:33:06.360
All citizens are equal
before the law.

01:33:06.520 --> 01:33:10.680
Yes. Whatever their origin,
religion or race

01:33:10.880 --> 01:33:14.000
they spoke of "race"
at the time.

01:33:14.160 --> 01:33:15.920
It's in the constitution.

01:33:16.240 --> 01:33:21.600
And whatever the gender,
so man and woman.

01:33:22.880 --> 01:33:27.640
Do you find it normal
that men and women are equal?

01:33:28.200 --> 01:33:31.880
Do you find it normal
that men and women are equal?

01:33:32.680 --> 01:33:34.520
- It's normal.
- It's normal?

01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:37.760
- Yes?
- I don't know. It's normal.

01:33:38.040 --> 01:33:40.720
It better be normal,
because if you say it isn't,

01:33:40.880 --> 01:33:42.920
it won't go in your favour!

01:33:43.240 --> 01:33:44.520
- Is it normal?
- Yes.

01:33:44.680 --> 01:33:47.680
What about in your home?
Does your wife work?

01:33:47.960 --> 01:33:49.440
No. She works at home.

01:33:49.600 --> 01:33:53.320
She works at home?
She's never worked outside the home?

01:33:53.560 --> 01:33:56.440
- She's already worked in Italy.
- She's worked in Italy?

01:33:56.600 --> 01:33:58.320
Yes, she worked a lot
in Italy.

01:33:58.840 --> 01:34:01.800
So it's normal that men
and women are equal?

01:34:01.960 --> 01:34:02.920
Yes.

01:34:03.280 --> 01:34:05.160
Yes? Why are you laughing?

01:34:09.160 --> 01:34:14.080
So, equality before the law.

01:34:14.240 --> 01:34:16.320
But I can tell you
that's not entirely true.

01:34:16.480 --> 01:34:19.760
If you're a foreigner, you're not
treated the same way as the French.

01:34:20.600 --> 01:34:24.960
That's the way things are.

01:34:25.120 --> 01:34:28.480
So the concept of equality...

01:34:28.800 --> 01:34:31.160
It won't matter if you say that.

01:34:31.320 --> 01:34:34.400
If you say we're all equal but
there are some differences,

01:34:34.560 --> 01:34:36.560
like between a foreigner
and the French.

01:34:36.800 --> 01:34:41.440
Ok. I'll photocopy this for you
and you can help him practice.

01:34:42.120 --> 01:34:43.920
- Ok?
- Yes.

01:34:44.440 --> 01:34:46.720
- How old are you?
- I'm 18.

01:34:46.880 --> 01:34:51.720
- Ok. And what do you do?
- I'm in my final Bac year.

01:34:51.920 --> 01:34:55.000
- In what area?
- Healthcare and social.

01:34:55.720 --> 01:35:00.480
- What do you want to do later?
- At first I wanted to be a lawyer.

01:35:01.200 --> 01:35:04.760
I don't know if I can
with the area I've chosen.

01:35:04.920 --> 01:35:07.480
- You need to study law.
- Yes.

01:35:07.840 --> 01:35:09.720
You need to study law
at university.

01:35:10.160 --> 01:35:12.520
What makes you want
to become a lawyer?

01:35:12.680 --> 01:35:14.600
I like the idea.

01:35:15.640 --> 01:35:18.000
Ok, why not?

01:35:19.480 --> 01:35:22.760
I'll go and do the photocopy.

01:35:56.680 --> 01:36:04.120
Warmest thanks to all clients
and staff for their participation.

01:36:11.400 --> 01:36:14.920
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A Sense of Justice

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