WEBVTT

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We bring you great news from
the great state of Vermont.

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Remember December 20th,

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1999 for when the Vermont
Supreme Court changed the world

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as we knew it forever.

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I want to introduce you to
two extraordinary Vermonters,

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Beth Robinson and Susan Murray.

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Ladies and gentlemen, from
the bottom of my heart,

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I wish for each and every one of you
the exact same opportunity for inclusion

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and respect that we now have in Vermont.

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The struggle for marriage
equality is an ongoing struggle.

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It\'s not about over in
the Civil rights movement,

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I saw with my own eyes that you
cannot have equality for some and not

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equality for all.
Everyone must be included.

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Everyone must have a place at the table.

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But Susan and Beth did was

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in keeping with what Rosa
Parks and others did.

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One morning I came into work and I read
about a car accident in the newspaper.

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A woman had died and another woman who
had been driving was severely injured

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and there was an 18 month old
little boy in the backseat

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and there was this horrible insinuating
kind of story about the fact that that a

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woman who had died and the woman
who was driving the car were in this

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relationship.

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The dead woman\'s parents were
coming up to Vermont to take the

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little baby, and I just
couldn\'t. I couldn\'t,

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couldn\'t stand that, and I represented
her through the custody battles.

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There were a lot of people living
in this state, in the shadows,

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in exactly this kind of a relationship
outside of the purview of the law,

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and because I was in the newspaper,
they started coming to see me.

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So that\'s how I developed a
gay and lesbian legal practice,

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family law practice.

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In the 1980s and even into the
1990s, gay people were under siege.

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We certainly had no legal right to marry.

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We had no state level recognition
of our families whatsoever.

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When I first started in law in 1987,

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I literally saw contracts that said
a person could be fired from their

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job simply because they\'re gay.

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The whole history of our constitution
is the story of including those who were

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once excluded. The 1996,

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no state allowed marriage and part of
the purpose of the Federal Defense and

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Marriage Act was to invite states to
discriminate against same-sex couples and

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states accepted that
invitation with alacrity.

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People were losing their
kids in custody cases,

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people were being discriminated against
even after years of military service.

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It\'s difficult for people
today to appreciate how
recently things were horrible.

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I first met Beth, I think
it was the summer of 1987.

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I was a brand new intern,

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summer law clerk at the law
firm at Lang Roxbury and Wall.

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I saw some of the important
work Susan was doing,

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especially as it related to
lesbian and gay families.

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I quickly realized that a lot of the
legal protections that heterosexual

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married couples don\'t even think
about weren\'t there for same-sex

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couples.

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Susan quickly became a professional
mentor to me and it was a beating

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of a fast friendship.

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Come on.

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Beth is a small and incredible
bundle of energy and always has been,

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and I\'ve met a lot of smart
people in my lifetime,

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but she is an exquisite legal
mind, but she was also a blast.

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She would eat nothing but pixie sticks.

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She would just eat pixie sticks after
pixie sticks. That was her sugar fix.

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I grew up in Indiana, but I
was part of a big happy family,

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wonderful parents as a young girl who
was enthralled by Atticus Finch into Kill

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a Mockingbird. I don\'t want
to make too much of it,

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but I think the notion of a small town
lawyer who helps their neighbors and

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can be relied upon to do the right
thing even when doing the right

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thing might make them unpopular. I
mean, what\'s not to admire about that?

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My parents were the epitome to
me of what it was like to be a

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committed married couple. They
sacrificed everything for their kids.

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I knew I was gay probably fairly early on

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as a teenager,

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but that was not a time when there
was even such a word as a lesbianism.

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I eventually came out to my
parents when I met someone,

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it was hard on them initially.

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They went to a counselor who actually
happened to be a Roman Catholic nun,

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and apparently the nun asked them whether
I was happy and my parents said yes,

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and the nun said, then don\'t worry
about it. That was the response,

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and so that\'s where they ended up.

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Karen and I met in 1986
at our friend\'s house.

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We were all going to sit down and watch
The Wizard of Oz and we just hit it off

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and then we just kept talking and
we\'ve been talking ever since.

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Mary Bedo and Evan.

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Wolfson were the earliest
and most persuasive voices

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on these questions of marriage equality,

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and that was very important
to my own evolution.

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On the issue. In early 1994,

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I pulled together lawyers from around
the sixth New England states to meet at

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GLAD and to talk about the opportunity
that we now had to really pursue the

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marriage issue. There were people at
the table who thought this was a folly,

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even reckless. Beth and Susan clearly
said there was a path forward in Vermont.

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In 1994, Beth and I set
up a little workshop.

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This is for the Annals.

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Hello. Hi, Beth. Hey, Barbara. Walter,

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Susan.

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Susan. This is for the historical
record. Say hello. Hello.

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One of the questions I asked was what
do you think about taking on the idea of

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working toward marriage for gay couples?

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And most of the people in the room
said, that sounds like a terrible idea.

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I remember them talking
about we have this goal

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of establishing marriage in Vermont,

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and there was a group of us and we were
sitting there and I have to tell you,

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I was like, marriage. Really?

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The only discussion about gay marriage
was happening out in Hawaii, what,

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6,000 miles away from Vermont.

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I was co-counsel in the Hawaii case, but
ultimately we didn\'t succeed in Hawaii,

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and the reason was we weren\'t as effective
in making the case in the court of

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public opinion as we were in making
the case in the court of law.

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By 1995, Beth and I, along with
about a half dozen other volunteers,

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formed the Vermont Freedom
to marry task force.

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We had no money and a lot of energy. We.

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Knew that this wasn\'t going to succeed
if it was the gay community by itself.

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This had to be something that fair-minded

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Vermonters across the
political spectrum embraced.

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Beth Robinson and Susan Murray had
this kind of traveling roadshow.

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They would go to the county
fairs, they\'d set up their table,

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and the goal was to just
tell stories to introduce gay

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and lesbian couples to people in an
unexpected place. And believe me,

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a county fair would be an unexpected
place to meet a gay rights advocacy group.

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Joseph Watson and another
volunteer built this giant booth.

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It was eight feet high and 16 feet wide.
It filled an entire space at the fair.

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I remember sitting in the booth
kind of nervous, and I see a guy,

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dirty jeans, flannel shirt,
John Deere cap, and I think, oh,

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this is one of these hostile encounters
we\'ve been training people for.

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He stops and pauses and
says, my son is gay.

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I love him dearly and
I\'m glad you\'re here.

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And then he turns and walks
away and I realize I\'ve

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just engaged in exactly the kind of
stereotyping that I\'m asking other people

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not to engage in. And

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if it was an eyeopening moment.

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At some point we had to decide was there
going to be a marriage case and if so,

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when? And in 1996, I
drove up to Beth\'s home,

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Susan was there,

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and we sat down and talked
about what would be ahead,

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and we believed all three of us believed
that we each had something unique to

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offer.

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I think in the early days I was the
undisciplined, impulsive one of the group.

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Really? Why say that? I dunno
because people say that.

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No, I can tell you that I felt, I
mean I was just a brand new lawyer and

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suddenly I was sort of hanging out
with a giant in the movement and a

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giant in Vermont. I mean,
I think over time we

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got caught up. Hopefully I\'m not
a giant, but I mean equalized,

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I felt more like a peer, but I think at
first I felt like the summer intern you.

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Came in like, oh, I\'m
this new lawyer and so on,

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but you are on everything you asked.

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The most incisive questions
completely had analyzed everything.

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So the two of you, I just felt.

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Like, don\'t give me this. Mary gave Beth
and I some street cred if you would,

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some credibility with the national
legal groups because there might be some

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tendency to think that we might be some
yahoos who didn\'t know what we were

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doing.

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So there were a lot of people from
outside of Vermont that wanted to try to

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control this case and Mary said,
no, that\'s not going to happen.

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This is a Vermont case.
These are Vermont lawyers.

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This is going to be a Vermont matter.

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Mary didn\'t care whether
Beth and Susan got credit,

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and Beth and Susan didn\'t care whether
Mary got credit. And that characterized,

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I think their relationship
from the very beginning.

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We were looking for three plaintiff
couples who were going to be

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rock solid as couples who
were articulate and willing to

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go through the trouble of being in front
of the media and working really hard

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without complaint.

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Ultimately,

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the folks that we all know and love
as the plaintiffs in the Baker case,

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each of them brought something different
to the mix and each of them brought

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something vital to the mix.

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Paul and Lois, when we
first ran into them,

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they were together for 25 years
already. They\'d already raised a child.

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They\'d done incredible amounts of
volunteer work building for Habitat for

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Humanity, riding their bicycles
across country for the Girl Scouts,

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very active in their church and
they just wanted to get married.

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What do I love.

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About Lois? Wow, she\'s kind. She\'s caring,

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she\'s gentle.

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Okay, so that\'s a dollar 75, $2,

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3 0 7, please.

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Holly and I have been together 41 years,

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one month in five days. Holly\'s
my companion, my friend.

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We share a lot.

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How do we meet? Whoops.

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I was teaching a statistics class
and there was this very attractive

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gray haired, lanky woman,

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and it turns out it was Lois and we

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did behave ourselves.

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We didn\'t do any what one
would now call dating until

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after the semester was over.

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That\'s Jason.

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Yeah,

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we just decided that we would spend
the rest of our lives together.

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Stan and Peter are two of
the most gentle people.

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Stan\'s a therapist and now
actually an Episcopal priest,

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and Peter is a musical theater professor.

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When I came out publicly in midlife, I
dated some other guys and that was fun,

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but it wasn\'t love. But with Peter,

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there was something he radiated in
his intelligence and his maturity

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and in his innocence it was
clear he was deeply special.

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Stan, he\'s very handsome. He\'s
funny, he\'s understanding.

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He really allows me to be myself in a
much deeper way than I ever really thought

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I could.

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Stacey and Nina brought this wonderful
energy and they brought their child with

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them. Noah.

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I met Stacey doing martial arts,

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which is something that\'s near
and dear to both of our hearts.

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She has a very unique way
of looking at the world

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and had a strong sense of spirituality and

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I felt very drawn to that.

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Nina\'s unbelievably sexy.

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She\'s 58 years old and I
still think she blows away any

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woman in any room and it\'s
pretty amazing to have

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that alive after 23 years.

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On June 17th, 1997,

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Peter and I went into the Shelburne
Town clerk\'s office and said we would

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like a marriage license and
she didn\'t want to say no,

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and yet the laws of the state
said that she had to say no.

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Once the town clerks denied their
request for marriage licenses,

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it was really our turn as the
lawyers to take it from there.

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Three homosexual couples filed a lawsuit
today challenging a Vermont state law

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that prohibits same sex marriages.

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The plaintiffs say the ban violates the
equal protection clause in the state

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constitution.

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All of a sudden we were
the center of attention.

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Life gut complex if not crazy.

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I\'m the pastor of the
Cambridge United Church.

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I\'ve been married my wife
Deb for 39 years. Yes,

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39 years.

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Homosexual behavior is a
desecration of the very image

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and reality of who we are as human beings.

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Early on we got leaders together.

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We got input from the folks in Hawaii.

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We got a scope of what the
battle was going to be.

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We determined we were the ones that
would have to be getting together to do

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something about it.

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Good morning, I\'m be Robinson.

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I\'m thrilled to work with Murray this
case and I\'m honored to work with the

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plaintiff that represent these
plaintiffs want to get married.

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They want to marry each other for the
same reasons that many people want to

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marry each other. They love each other.

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They want to make a public
legal commitment to one another.

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Their lives are already intervenable,
emotionally, spiritually, and financially,

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and they seek the legal protections.

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And responsibilities that flow
from civil marriage to Beth\'s right

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are lowest foreign and
her partner of 25 years,

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Holly Putter Bar to Mary\'s
left are Stan Baker and Peter

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Harrigan. There\'s a third
couple involved in this lawsuit.

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Stacey Giles and Nina Beck. Unfortunately,

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Stacey and Nina could not be here today.

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Yesterday their two and a half year old
son was rushed to the hospital with a

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serious medical condition,

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so obviously that takes
precedence over press conference.

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Noah was our first child. He
was born with a heart condition.

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People called him the Buddha.

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He was a very old and wise spirit.

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Noah died August 29th waiting for a heart

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transplant at Boston Children\'s Hospital

00:17:48.980 --> 00:17:49.813
In my arms.

00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:54.310
They didn\'t know what to do with us.

00:17:56.330 --> 00:18:01.220
The man came to sign a death
warrant and the mother\'s name fine.

00:18:01.220 --> 00:18:05.510
They put that in the spot and the father\'s
name and we told them Stacey\'s name

00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:09.190
could go there and he could
not get that. It was like.

00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:10.310
Could not understand.

00:18:10.310 --> 00:18:10.980
That.

00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:14.870
I literally sat with this man for at
least an hour trying to explain to him my

00:18:14.870 --> 00:18:17.950
relationship to Noah. And finally
a friend who was there with us.

00:18:18.020 --> 00:18:22.430
Said, just put her name
there and in the end he did.

00:18:23.210 --> 00:18:27.790
Beth and Susan were right
there with us with Noah. They

00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:33.110
asked if we wanted to step out
of the lawsuit at that point,

00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:37.980
and for me, there was no way I
would step out of the lawsuit.

00:18:38.170 --> 00:18:42.670
It was more important than ever
to protect the rights of children

00:18:44.650 --> 00:18:46.220
who had gay or lesbian parents.

00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:51.510
And in December of 1997,

00:18:52.050 --> 00:18:56.870
the Superior Court issued an order
saying that the towns did not violate

00:18:56.930 --> 00:18:59.270
the Constitution by denying the licenses.

00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.390
So we\'re on our way to the
Vermont Supreme Court and it

00:19:04.350 --> 00:19:05.630
consumed all of us.

00:19:06.120 --> 00:19:10.510
Every day we\'d spent hours on the phone
going through things line by line,

00:19:10.930 --> 00:19:15.830
and this went on for months before we
finally felt like our briefs were polished

00:19:15.830 --> 00:19:17.910
enough and ready to file in
the Vermont Supreme Court.

00:19:20.060 --> 00:19:24.070
When the Baker case came into
the attorney General\'s office,

00:19:24.610 --> 00:19:28.910
we had to come up with what we
thought were plausible reasons for the

00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:33.070
legislature to have said that marriage
would be between one and man and one

00:19:33.070 --> 00:19:36.350
woman, and we came up with
about six different rationales.

00:19:37.350 --> 00:19:40.910
Normally a brief to the Supreme Court
would be 30 pages long and we got

00:19:40.910 --> 00:19:44.790
permission to make it longer. In fact,
our brief was over 90 pages long.

00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:50.710
At some point we had to make a
decision about who was going to

00:19:50.840 --> 00:19:52.740
argue the case in front
of Vermont Supreme Court.

00:19:52.850 --> 00:19:56.270
It was actually my call I
being the senior partner.

00:19:56.970 --> 00:19:57.910
From my perspective,

00:19:58.300 --> 00:20:02.510
Mary couldn\'t do it because she wasn\'t a
Vermonter and then between Beth and me,

00:20:03.110 --> 00:20:06.150
I thought that Beth was the
better person to argue it.

00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:11.070
She\'s a brilliant mind and really had
all of the constitutional law issues

00:20:11.170 --> 00:20:13.350
at her fingertips. I
felt a lot of pressure.

00:20:15.210 --> 00:20:16.670
But I was also thrilled to be doing it.

00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:21.670
I knew that if I felt flat out of my face
and embarrassed myself in front of my

00:20:21.670 --> 00:20:24.670
colleagues in the community
and the plaintiffs and
everybody was counting on me,

00:20:25.390 --> 00:20:29.740
I still had someone to come home to who
was going to support me come hell or

00:20:29.740 --> 00:20:30.573
high water,

00:20:31.370 --> 00:20:36.220
but it wasn\'t as though Kim was home
waiting for me with my slippers at the

00:20:36.220 --> 00:20:36.570
door.

00:20:36.570 --> 00:20:39.950
She was in medical school and then she
was a resident and then she was starting

00:20:40.010 --> 00:20:44.740
her medical practice, and so we were
both running around like maniacs.

00:20:46.690 --> 00:20:50.530
In order to get ready for an
oral argument of this magnitude.

00:20:50.870 --> 00:20:54.530
You don\'t just read the briefs the
night before and say, oh, okay,

00:20:54.570 --> 00:20:55.403
I think I\'m ready.

00:20:55.760 --> 00:21:00.090
We\'d really struggled with how to put
together the argument and I desperately

00:21:00.090 --> 00:21:04.010
wanted to get away from just
the legal pieces. I wanted to.

00:21:04.010 --> 00:21:04.843
Tell a story.

00:21:05.310 --> 00:21:09.810
We gathered lawyers in Boston
and Beth made a presentation

00:21:10.220 --> 00:21:14.720
and they critiqued her approach and
they said that just wasn\'t right.

00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.370
This is something wrong, just was off.

00:21:21.950 --> 00:21:26.850
And we drove back to Vermont and
I have a very distinct memory of

00:21:26.850 --> 00:21:31.050
being in Beth\'s living room. I think
it was a Sunday night and she said,

00:21:31.110 --> 00:21:34.090
how about this? I said,
Susan, I want to try out.

00:21:34.090 --> 00:21:37.810
Something on you. And so I tried out this

00:21:39.370 --> 00:21:41.240
introduction that I
had been thinking about

00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:45.330
and it was a story not
about a same-sex couple.

00:21:45.590 --> 00:21:50.290
It was about a court in California in
1948 that found itself in a very similar

00:21:51.050 --> 00:21:55.810
situation and it talked about all the
parallels and it talked about what that

00:21:55.810 --> 00:21:58.370
court did and I just went, that\'s it.

00:21:58.790 --> 00:22:01.240
That\'s it, that\'s it. She had it.

00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:08.610
Finally the day came, people lined up
outside the Supreme Court building.

00:22:09.080 --> 00:22:13.690
They handed out tickets to the oral
arguments. The courtroom itself was full.

00:22:13.730 --> 00:22:16.850
There were radio and television
reporters from around the world.

00:22:17.560 --> 00:22:22.240
They set up chairs in this large room
outside and they\'ve carried the video

00:22:22.350 --> 00:22:23.570
out there so everyone could see.

00:22:23.570 --> 00:22:24.370
It.

00:22:24.370 --> 00:22:26.850
I think the first thing that struck me
walking into the courtroom is I\'d never

00:22:26.850 --> 00:22:27.770
seen it so crowded.

00:22:28.060 --> 00:22:33.050
There was an atmosphere there that
was unusual and extraordinary.

00:22:37.660 --> 00:22:38.610
Baker at all.

00:22:39.850 --> 00:22:44.370
Robinson representing the
state of Ram Vermont are Eve

00:22:44.510 --> 00:22:48.850
Jacobs and Tim, and please the court,

00:22:51.270 --> 00:22:55.930
the question in this case is not whether
we in this room as individuals approve

00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:59.210
of a policy that permits
same sex couples to marry.

00:22:59.870 --> 00:23:04.850
The question in this case is rather
whether the legislature having adopted a

00:23:05.050 --> 00:23:09.130
marriage statute that permits only
opposite sex couples to marry has acted

00:23:09.310 --> 00:23:14.090
unconstitutionally planners here
seek a right which has never been

00:23:14.090 --> 00:23:18.810
granted in any state in the United
States or in any country in the world.

00:23:19.350 --> 00:23:22.610
To be in the Vermont Supreme
Court on that day was electric.

00:23:23.210 --> 00:23:26.570
I had enormous confidence in Beth.
We all did, and for good reason.

00:23:27.800 --> 00:23:28.610
Beth is so short,

00:23:28.610 --> 00:23:31.770
she had to put the little step down so
she could stand on it so she could be

00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:36.850
seen over the dais and she just
started talking and you could hear

00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:37.723
a pin drop.

00:23:38.060 --> 00:23:41.810
Susan Marie, Mary Beto and I have the
privilege of representing this morning,

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.810
Nina Beck and Stacey Giles,

00:23:44.450 --> 00:23:47.970
Stan Baker and Peter Harrigan and
Holly Putter Baugh and Lois Farney.

00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:54.210
50 years ago the California Supreme
Court handed down its decision

00:23:54.590 --> 00:23:59.290
in the landmark case of Perez versus
Lippold striking down California\'s ban

00:23:59.390 --> 00:24:00.330
on interracial marriage.

00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:05.240
The parallels between that case
and this case are striking.

00:24:06.840 --> 00:24:11.650
It\'s easy to sit here in 1998 and
look back and say that that decision

00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:13.450
was an easy one. Of course,

00:24:13.510 --> 00:24:17.370
the ban on interracial marriage was
unconstitutional, but at the time,

00:24:17.870 --> 00:24:22.090
30 of the 48 states in this country
prohibited interracial marriage. In fact,

00:24:22.350 --> 00:24:26.090
six found it so odious that they
prohibited by constitutional provision.

00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:31.050
Nine out of 10 Americans opposed
interracial marriage. In fact,

00:24:31.150 --> 00:24:36.090
the notion of a black person and
a white person marrying was as

00:24:36.090 --> 00:24:40.930
antithetical to many people\'s conceptions
of what a marriage was as the notion

00:24:41.090 --> 00:24:43.650
of a man marrying a man or
a woman marrying a woman.

00:24:43.990 --> 00:24:46.450
Appears to be to the
state of Vermont today.

00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:50.480
It was by far the best oral
argument I\'ve ever seen.

00:24:51.980 --> 00:24:53.690
Thank you so much to Mary Otto.

00:24:53.690 --> 00:24:58.690
From Glad to Susan Murray from
Lang Rock Wool in Middlebury and to

00:24:58.990 --> 00:25:01.050
Beth Robinson. You rock.

00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:26.050
After oral argument, the
justice assigned a case.

00:25:27.390 --> 00:25:28.610
In this case that would\'ve been me.

00:25:29.980 --> 00:25:33.290
We\'ll prepare a draft to circulate
it to the other justices.

00:25:33.770 --> 00:25:37.730
There\'ll be back and forth on the issues
in that process can take the better

00:25:37.730 --> 00:25:38.563
part of a year.

00:25:39.550 --> 00:25:41.530
We had a lot to do during that time.

00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:46.480
Vermont freedom and bury task force
was busier than ever. Susan and I,

00:25:46.790 --> 00:25:49.810
we were still working full time and then
taking these trips on the road and I

00:25:49.810 --> 00:25:54.330
can just remember we got out of
a meeting. It was a weeknight.

00:25:54.630 --> 00:25:58.010
It was probably 10 o\'clock and we
still had a three hour drive home.

00:25:58.910 --> 00:26:02.970
We hadn\'t had dinner. I can remember
going to some convenience mart,

00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:06.970
not finding anything that
we could stand to eat.

00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.450
I just remember thinking, wow,
this is going to be a long haul.

00:26:12.270 --> 00:26:15.650
But as exhausting as
that was, I also thought,

00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:18.233
this is fun.

00:26:20.520 --> 00:26:23.810
Vermont was an unbelievably idyllic,

00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.290
wonderful place to grow
up when I was a kid

00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:30.450
and it\'s not nearly as good now.

00:26:31.870 --> 00:26:36.850
The fourth commandment in the Catholic
church is honor thy father and

00:26:36.850 --> 00:26:41.610
thy mother and that withstood 5,700

00:26:41.620 --> 00:26:44.650
years of Judeo Christian history.

00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:49.480
Now we\'re going to take a step
and go another direction. Why.

00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:58.800
Marriage is a foundational
institution and for me personally,

00:26:59.350 --> 00:27:03.360
it\'s the relationship that I have
with my wife and my children and my

00:27:03.360 --> 00:27:04.193
grandchildren.

00:27:04.830 --> 00:27:09.640
Homosexuality from a biblical point
of view is harmful to the people to

00:27:09.710 --> 00:27:12.400
society and to their growth
and closeness to God.

00:27:13.520 --> 00:27:18.120
I have heard many of our
opponents say that for

00:27:18.340 --> 00:27:20.960
two women to live together in a marriage,

00:27:21.940 --> 00:27:25.560
the Bible says that it\'s an abomination.

00:27:27.230 --> 00:27:31.060
First thing I would point out is if we
believe everything written in the Bible,

00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:35.900
you better go find yourself slaves
because the Bible tells you very carefully

00:27:35.900 --> 00:27:37.220
how to take care of slaves.

00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:42.860
In the same chapter where it says
that abomination for two men to lie

00:27:43.060 --> 00:27:47.340
together, it also says you should
not eat anything on cloves,

00:27:47.340 --> 00:27:50.730
which takes away pigs. You
should not eat shellfish,

00:27:50.910 --> 00:27:55.060
which takes away shrimp. You should
not work clothes of mixed fiber,

00:27:55.110 --> 00:27:59.420
which are good, normal polyester
cotton mixes would be gone.

00:28:00.580 --> 00:28:05.420
I think love is the real
message in the Bible and it\'s

00:28:05.530 --> 00:28:06.580
love at all levels.

00:28:08.330 --> 00:28:12.620
Between the time of the oral argument
and the time that the Supreme Court

00:28:12.860 --> 00:28:16.860
decision finally came out,
we had our second son.

00:28:17.080 --> 00:28:20.980
Our son Seth was born just a month
before the decision was announced

00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.660
and it was wonderful that he was here.

00:28:26.360 --> 00:28:31.260
He is the most extroverted human
being I think you can possibly ever

00:28:31.260 --> 00:28:36.060
meet. I don\'t know how two introverts
could create such an extrovert,

00:28:36.320 --> 00:28:39.340
but he genuinely loves people.

00:28:40.840 --> 00:28:43.980
So the Vermont Supreme Court always
issues its decisions on a Friday.

00:28:44.780 --> 00:28:49.420
I wore the same suit every Friday because
it\'s the suit I wanted to wear for

00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:52.820
the press conference. When
the decision came down,

00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:56.900
people started making fun of me
because they\'d see my Friday suit on.

00:28:58.540 --> 00:29:01.700
I had to switch suits because the suit
was really seasonally appropriate for the

00:29:01.700 --> 00:29:02.620
winter, but not the summer

00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:09.420
and the weather started getting cold
again and I went back to my old press

00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:12.820
conference suit, so it
felt like a long wait.

00:29:14.290 --> 00:29:16.300
When the Baker decision came out,

00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:20.060
it was on a Monday morning and
it took everyone by surprise.

00:29:20.900 --> 00:29:25.460
I got a heads up call from someone
I know close to the court who said,

00:29:25.530 --> 00:29:28.700
standby, we\'ve got a big decision
just about to be released,

00:29:29.280 --> 00:29:34.220
and it was about 10:30 AM and our
deadline drop dead deadline was 10

00:29:34.220 --> 00:29:37.420
30 in the morning and I called my
editors and said, hold the press.

00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.020
It was one of those real
hold the press moments.

00:29:41.030 --> 00:29:45.530
The decision is coming over the fax
line, one very slow page at a time,

00:29:45.530 --> 00:29:46.930
and it was 80 some odd pages.

00:29:47.310 --> 00:29:52.090
We had a press conference and we had to
read the decision in the car while we

00:29:52.090 --> 00:29:53.330
were driving up to Burlington,

00:29:54.270 --> 00:29:56.970
but we did stop at her house on the
way so she could change into her suit.

00:29:58.130 --> 00:30:01.410
A decision from the Vermont Supreme
Court today has moved Vermont one step

00:30:01.410 --> 00:30:04.090
closer to allowing same
sex couples to marry.

00:30:04.790 --> 00:30:08.010
The decision is being called the
first of its kind in the nation.

00:30:08.310 --> 00:30:09.690
The Vermont Supreme Court says,

00:30:09.750 --> 00:30:14.170
gay and lesbian couples must be granted
the same benefits and protections given

00:30:14.170 --> 00:30:16.170
married couples of the opposite sex,

00:30:16.790 --> 00:30:20.210
but the high court stopped short of
giving gay couples the right to marry

00:30:20.600 --> 00:30:23.490
instead passing the issue on
to the Vermont legislature.

00:30:23.800 --> 00:30:28.410
Mary and I got on the phone right after
we got the decision and really wrestled

00:30:28.520 --> 00:30:33.130
with how do we see this? Did we win? Did
we lose the court? Got the what? Right?

00:30:34.530 --> 00:30:39.050
Equality, but got the how wrong because
the court threw to the legislature.

00:30:39.490 --> 00:30:43.810
I had to take the good with the bad,
the bitter with the sweet and move on.

00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:49.770
This is the first time that any state
supreme court in this country has not only

00:30:50.130 --> 00:30:52.410
recognized that same sex families exist,

00:30:52.470 --> 00:30:56.490
but for the first time has recognized
that they have the same needs and deserve

00:30:56.550 --> 00:31:00.690
the same protections and rights
as all other couples and families.

00:31:00.870 --> 00:31:03.610
That\'s a first. That\'s a
legal and cultural milestone.

00:31:04.490 --> 00:31:04.840
I mean,

00:31:04.840 --> 00:31:09.650
this came out of left field and all of a
sudden they find after 200 years of the

00:31:09.650 --> 00:31:12.930
Vermont Constitution
special rights for special.

00:31:14.330 --> 00:31:18.650
People. I thought that was a
combination of craftiness and cowardness

00:31:19.790 --> 00:31:21.890
and both of those made me angry.

00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.930
Beth was devastated by
the decision because

00:31:28.430 --> 00:31:32.610
it was half a loaf and

00:31:35.210 --> 00:31:37.610
I was happy with the fact that
we had made some progress.

00:31:40.600 --> 00:31:42.410
When I first heard
about marriage equality,

00:31:43.730 --> 00:31:48.050
I really thought it was not even that
great an idea. I\'ll be candid with you.

00:31:48.650 --> 00:31:51.730
I remember being called
into the governor\'s office.

00:31:52.250 --> 00:31:54.650
I was president of the Senate,
Howard Dean was governor at the time,

00:31:55.030 --> 00:31:58.690
and there was very few of us in there
and we were reading the opinion,

00:31:59.270 --> 00:32:02.990
trying to figure out first of all what
it meant and secondly what we were going

00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:04.890
to do about it, and we knew
that there was a real risk.

00:32:04.890 --> 00:32:07.610
We knew that there was going to
be huge political casualties.

00:32:08.310 --> 00:32:10.850
Senate leadership was
very nervous about this,

00:32:11.190 --> 00:32:15.970
so they went to Governor Dean in a

00:32:15.970 --> 00:32:18.610
secret meeting and they said,

00:32:18.630 --> 00:32:23.250
is there any way we can delay this until
after the election? And Howard said,

00:32:23.270 --> 00:32:26.130
no, we have to do this
now. We have to do it.

00:32:26.760 --> 00:32:31.170
Most people in politics never
get to vote on an issue that is

00:32:32.370 --> 00:32:37.290
critical for the betterment of the
country and at the same time toxic to

00:32:37.290 --> 00:32:38.730
their possibility of reelection.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.930
When I grew up,

00:32:41.190 --> 00:32:45.970
it was common and I did it all the
time to make incredibly unkind and

00:32:45.970 --> 00:32:48.330
disparaging remarks about gay people.

00:32:49.550 --> 00:32:53.210
If you had told me that I was going to
sign the first marriage equality bill in

00:32:53.210 --> 00:32:56.410
the United States of America, I would\'ve
not only told you, you\'re crazy.

00:32:56.610 --> 00:32:58.490
I would\'ve tried to kick you
in the butt and beat you up.

00:32:59.590 --> 00:33:01.730
The morning after the
Baker decision came down,

00:33:02.410 --> 00:33:06.850
I picked up the phone and called Beth
and Susan\'s law firm and I got Susan on

00:33:06.850 --> 00:33:11.170
the phone. I said, as
any good pitch man does.

00:33:11.950 --> 00:33:14.090
Hi, I\'m Kevin Ellis from
Kimball Sherman Ellis.

00:33:14.090 --> 00:33:17.970
You don\'t know who I am and you\'re
now headed into a three ring circus.

00:33:19.270 --> 00:33:22.810
Do you have any idea what you\'re
about to face? And she said, no,

00:33:23.590 --> 00:33:26.650
but I have CNN on the other
line. Can I call you back?

00:33:27.230 --> 00:33:30.410
And they offered to be our lobbyists
and I think we told them, well,

00:33:30.410 --> 00:33:32.690
that\'s nice, but we can\'t pay you.
And they said, don\'t worry about it.

00:33:33.760 --> 00:33:36.970
Beth and Susan were lawyers. They
weren\'t political organizers,

00:33:37.750 --> 00:33:41.890
so suddenly they had to build a
political organization from scratch.

00:33:42.730 --> 00:33:47.090
I was going to a fundraiser for the
Vermont Freedom to Marry Task force and I

00:33:47.150 --> 00:33:50.170
met Beth and Susan. They
were a brilliant team.

00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:55.730
Here you have the best legal minds getting
the gay and lesbian community playing

00:33:55.970 --> 00:34:00.050
politics, hardball politics,
hardball electoral politics.

00:34:00.190 --> 00:34:01.210
For the first time ever,

00:34:01.600 --> 00:34:05.250
Vermont was the stepping
stone to all the other states.

00:34:05.950 --> 00:34:08.770
If it could happen in Vermont, it
would happen in the other states.

00:34:08.910 --> 00:34:12.730
If we could stop it in Vermont, we
could stop it in the other states.

00:34:13.550 --> 00:34:17.890
We started holding rallies, press
conferences, lobbying legislatures.

00:34:18.190 --> 00:34:22.930
We risk throwing away all the
things that are inherent in

00:34:23.030 --> 00:34:27.090
the foundational unit of society.
People started calling us and saying,

00:34:27.470 --> 00:34:29.290
how do we help? What can we do?

00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:34.730
We had a true grassroots rebellion
on our hands of the state

00:34:34.730 --> 00:34:35.563
of Vermont.

00:34:35.790 --> 00:34:38.890
We put together an ad.
It gets a 13 or 15 point

00:34:41.240 --> 00:34:45.840
kind of communist, not communist,
homosexual manifesto. In other words,

00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:47.570
what they wanted to do in America.

00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:53.360
That ad ran in every paper in the
state and people were calling me up

00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:54.970
out of the blue. I didn\'t
know who they were.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.930
They wouldn\'t write a check for
$1,500 and say, can you run this.

00:34:57.930 --> 00:35:02.130
Same ad again, the eyes of the
political players across the country,

00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:06.800
anyone that cared about GLBT quality
on our side or against our side

00:35:07.300 --> 00:35:10.320
was focused like a laser beam on Vermont.

00:35:52.640 --> 00:35:57.540
It was decided that the house would
start the bill and so it was assigned to

00:35:57.590 --> 00:35:58.660
the judiciary Committee.

00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:03.900
The House Judiciary Committee was run
by Tom Little who was a Republican and a

00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:07.020
lawyer and a very even keeled great guy.

00:36:07.640 --> 00:36:12.260
The Judiciary Committee had 11
members and all political parties,

00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:17.500
Republicans, democrats, progressives,
independents. We had all walks of life.

00:36:17.550 --> 00:36:19.820
We had people from all
corners of the state.

00:36:22.200 --> 00:36:25.610
I\'m a father, a grandfather,
and a Republican.

00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:31.780
I was born and raised here in the
state, brought up on a dairy farm,

00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.940
and then I became a state trooper.

00:36:35.540 --> 00:36:39.740
I retired in 92 and in
94 I ran for the house

00:36:40.590 --> 00:36:45.180
and then in the Supreme Court
I decided the Baker case.

00:36:45.660 --> 00:36:46.493
I said, oh my God,

00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:51.050
I know my district and I know
the people in Franklin County,

00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:56.220
and I knew how they felt
about this issue and I frankly

00:36:56.220 --> 00:36:57.540
thought I knew how I felt.

00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:00.090
Members of the House judiciary Committee,

00:37:00.490 --> 00:37:04.020
depending on their political
background, were either terrified

00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.220
or excited that we were taking this on.

00:37:08.550 --> 00:37:12.180
Our chair. Tom Little began
to bring in people to testify.

00:37:12.640 --> 00:37:13.980
He brought in the Attorney General.

00:37:14.110 --> 00:37:18.940
He brought in constitutional scholars
from both sides of the issue from

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:23.820
all over the country, and then we had
clergy come in and I got to tell you,

00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:25.700
I\'d rather deal with the
lawyers and the clergy.

00:37:27.750 --> 00:37:31.220
Susan and I think we were
the first witnesses in the
House Judiciary committee.

00:37:32.640 --> 00:37:35.300
All eyes were on that committee
room. People were nervous.

00:37:36.390 --> 00:37:39.260
Susan and I had the first
shot at making the case,

00:37:40.590 --> 00:37:43.260
and I don\'t think I did a very good job.

00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:48.740
I treated it like an argument before a
court and word came back pretty quickly

00:37:49.010 --> 00:37:50.780
that the committee really
hadn\'t warmed up to me.

00:37:51.010 --> 00:37:53.940
They didn\'t like me and it
might\'ve just been fatigue,

00:37:54.040 --> 00:37:57.610
but something happened that caused me to
become emotional and I got up and left

00:37:57.610 --> 00:37:58.443
the room.

00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:03.220
So I made a beeline for the women\'s
bathroom and a couple of the women on the

00:38:03.220 --> 00:38:07.340
house judiciary committee saw me
crying and we had a little conversation

00:38:08.110 --> 00:38:11.420
after that. The ice melted for me.

00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:16.340
One of the things I had to learn was
to engage at a personal level and let

00:38:16.540 --> 00:38:18.300
yourself experience feelings
that you don\'t as a lawyer.

00:38:19.780 --> 00:38:24.320
One of the hardest times for
me and I think for Peter was we

00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:29.640
appeared on the website of the
West Bar Baptist Church and

00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:32.200
under our picture it
said Vermont fag beasts,

00:38:32.200 --> 00:38:34.800
and then there was a
column of how evil we were,

00:38:34.820 --> 00:38:38.650
how we were going to go to hell.
It\'s hard to be seen as evil,

00:38:38.750 --> 00:38:41.650
but I don\'t absorb it.
I don\'t internalize it.

00:38:43.890 --> 00:38:45.250
I was working as a school nurse.

00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:50.800
I also taught health education
and two of the parents to pull

00:38:50.820 --> 00:38:55.170
their kids out of my classes
because they didn\'t want

00:38:55.540 --> 00:38:58.530
their children taught by a lesbian.

00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:04.490
I think Vermont was picked by the gay
movement as a good place to push for

00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:05.633
a first victory,

00:39:05.860 --> 00:39:09.840
and clearly we\'re in
an era of sexual chaos.

00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:14.210
So what\'s at stake? What\'s
at stake for Vermont?

00:39:14.230 --> 00:39:19.010
What\'s at stake for the nation now
is its children, is its future.

00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.650
Welcome Dr. Vagan,

00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.690
what are some of the things that you\'ve
discovered in the research that you\'ve

00:39:24.690 --> 00:39:25.270
done?

00:39:25.270 --> 00:39:28.970
The intercourse between a male and
female is potentially fruitful.

00:39:30.150 --> 00:39:34.250
It gives life and it can lead
to love marriage, happiness,

00:39:35.270 --> 00:39:36.890
and no matter how frequently

00:39:39.110 --> 00:39:43.570
two gay people or two lesbians come
together sexually, they can never, ever,

00:39:43.890 --> 00:39:46.410
ever produce a child.

00:39:47.570 --> 00:39:50.530
There is that fundamental common sense,

00:39:51.660 --> 00:39:55.800
total worlds apart difference
and to say both are the same is

00:39:57.340 --> 00:39:58.173
insane.

00:39:58.680 --> 00:40:03.570
It\'s hard to get around the
fact that at some level,

00:40:04.470 --> 00:40:09.410
the whole opposition is premised on
the notion that gay people shouldn\'t be

00:40:09.410 --> 00:40:12.290
treated as equals. But having said that,

00:40:12.820 --> 00:40:17.320
overwhelmingly the folks that I dealt
with in the opposition tried to present

00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:20.450
their views as civilly as they could.

00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:26.530
Look hard at these images pretend,

00:40:26.720 --> 00:40:27.930
just pretend for a moment

00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.450
that they\'re alive and they\'re standing
here in front of you with the full

00:40:32.450 --> 00:40:34.490
weight of authority of
the Vermont legislature.

00:40:35.140 --> 00:40:39.010
Would you tell them that they really
don\'t need or deserve a mother

00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:42.530
that they really don\'t
need or deserve a father?

00:40:43.680 --> 00:40:47.840
Because that\'s exactly what you would be
saying by changing the law in marriage.

00:40:48.550 --> 00:40:53.360
The House Judiciary Committee should
taken testimony every single day for

00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:56.360
six weeks, had finally decided it
was time for them to take the vote.

00:40:57.150 --> 00:41:01.530
It became pretty clear that the majority
of the committee wanted to support some

00:41:01.530 --> 00:41:04.800
type of legal recognition for
gay and lesbian relationships,

00:41:05.190 --> 00:41:10.050
but there was only a small
handful of us who believed that

00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:11.800
marriage was the right choice

00:41:13.430 --> 00:41:17.170
or that marriage had any chance of
passing on the floor of the house.

00:41:17.950 --> 00:41:20.050
The only thing I thought about
politically is what can you get through?

00:41:20.550 --> 00:41:23.050
And I knew I couldn\'t get married
through no matter what I did.

00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:24.530
It\'s just too scary for people.

00:41:24.710 --> 00:41:27.970
It is a difficult, uncomfortable time
for a lot of people in the state,

00:41:28.590 --> 00:41:32.360
but I think the legislature is looking
into their hearts and trying to do what

00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:34.970
they think as individuals
is the right thing to do.

00:41:35.550 --> 00:41:40.320
The bill that we ended up calling
civil unions gave every right and

00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:45.050
responsibility to gay and lesbians
that had heterosexual people had.

00:41:45.300 --> 00:41:46.840
It was not for marriage equality,

00:41:48.590 --> 00:41:51.770
but it was the first legal recognition.

00:41:52.270 --> 00:41:55.290
I\'m quite sure that the legislature
will look at all sorts of models,

00:41:55.510 --> 00:41:59.570
but if it studies the court\'s opinion
and it studies what it is the court\'s

00:41:59.570 --> 00:42:01.730
trying to accomplish and what
the Constitution requires,

00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:04.450
I don\'t think there\'s going to be
any alternative for full equality.

00:42:04.450 --> 00:42:05.290
Short of full equality.

00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:10.410
There\'s 150 members in the house.
You need 76 votes to pass anything.

00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:14.410
So my partner, Steve Kimball
did a count and for marriage,

00:42:14.910 --> 00:42:17.290
we had about 23 to 27 votes,

00:42:18.710 --> 00:42:21.320
so he had to go to Beth
and say, we can\'t win this.

00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:24.930
Your choice is to

00:42:26.630 --> 00:42:30.450
get no bill or to settle for

00:42:31.420 --> 00:42:34.840
civil unions, and that
was really hard for her,

00:42:35.390 --> 00:42:37.250
for both of them really, really hard.

00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:39.840
Beth and I had to take a step away.

00:42:39.860 --> 00:42:43.050
We actually dropped out of the
State House for five or six days.

00:42:43.340 --> 00:42:47.050
We had meetings in person
and over the phone,

00:42:47.050 --> 00:42:50.770
conference call meetings with all of
the activists around the state who have

00:42:50.770 --> 00:42:54.970
been working on this for 6, 7,
8 years and asking them, what.

00:42:54.970 --> 00:42:55.550
Do you want to do?

00:42:55.550 --> 00:42:58.930
Holding out for marriage meant walking
away from that legislative session with

00:42:58.930 --> 00:43:02.970
nothing and going back to the
court and saying, okay, court,

00:43:03.190 --> 00:43:05.290
we want you to finish the job.

00:43:06.110 --> 00:43:08.690
People looked to me and
Susan for leadership on this,

00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:12.800
and Susan and I weren\'t exactly aligned.

00:43:13.140 --> 00:43:16.840
Everything that the state of Vermont
could give opposite sex couples who marry,

00:43:17.110 --> 00:43:21.250
they gave to gay couples in
civil unions. So I felt good.

00:43:21.730 --> 00:43:24.530
I don\'t think either one of us took
it personally if we disagreed with the

00:43:24.530 --> 00:43:28.290
other. Right? Never, never. In fact,
I wonder, I just knew you were wrong.

00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:36.010
There was a moment there where Beth
Robinson had a decision to make,

00:43:36.430 --> 00:43:40.530
either she was going
to stick to her strong

00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:46.090
understanding of the law and
the constitution and say,

00:43:46.720 --> 00:43:51.490
this needs to be marriage or
she could make a political

00:43:51.690 --> 00:43:52.523
decision,

00:43:52.810 --> 00:43:57.570
a compromise and support moving
forward with civil unions,

00:43:57.910 --> 00:44:01.450
and that was an extremely difficult
decision for Beth to make,

00:44:01.950 --> 00:44:05.930
but I think it was brilliant that she
made it and it really changed the course

00:44:05.930 --> 00:44:08.050
of American history. She came.

00:44:08.050 --> 00:44:12.730
Back and she said to Steve, okay,
let\'s do it. Let\'s get civil unions.

00:44:13.690 --> 00:44:14.050
Montpelier.

00:44:14.050 --> 00:44:16.410
Really became quite a war zone.

00:44:16.680 --> 00:44:21.490
Vermont became ground zero in the
battle over gay people in American life

00:44:21.510 --> 00:44:22.343
and law.

00:44:23.340 --> 00:44:27.610
We saw all manner of anti-gay opponents
flooding the state with money,

00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.360
with troops busting in their supporters.

00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:33.890
Don\'t tell me to watch my mouth while
you\'re over here teaching these children

00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:35.650
that it\'s okay to be gay.

00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:39.090
That is the ultimate goal
of this entire movement,

00:44:39.860 --> 00:44:44.650
to destroy our ability to hold
people accountable for their

00:44:44.650 --> 00:44:49.330
sexual behavior. Love is
what we\'re fighting for.

00:44:52.130 --> 00:44:52.963
Violence.

00:44:53.420 --> 00:44:57.930
We\'re going to protect those civil
rights and ensure that people can live

00:44:58.330 --> 00:45:02.450
together in this state, in
harmony, in love, and in peace.

00:45:02.950 --> 00:45:05.210
As one family. The Vermont family.

00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:12.610
Randall Terry, the famed
anti-abortion crusader came to town.

00:45:12.630 --> 00:45:13.930
He set up a storefront,

00:45:14.330 --> 00:45:19.290
a block from a state house and let
it be known that he was here to

00:45:19.550 --> 00:45:23.650
uphold the importance of
traditional marriage and uphold

00:45:24.090 --> 00:45:26.330
everything that
traditional marriage means.

00:45:27.110 --> 00:45:30.970
Randall Terry would tell people that
homosexuality was an abomination.

00:45:31.470 --> 00:45:33.250
We must contain the poison.

00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:38.730
He came across as someone who was
intentionally trying to instill fear in

00:45:38.730 --> 00:45:42.610
people, and he did that to
my vice chair, bill Lippert.

00:45:43.080 --> 00:45:47.090
Bill Lippert. He was the only openly
gay member of the legislature,

00:45:47.590 --> 00:45:50.770
so he was at the eye of the storm.

00:45:51.730 --> 00:45:56.450
I remember walking through the halls
and hearing on a number of occasions,

00:45:57.410 --> 00:46:00.130
judgment day is coming. Representative
Lippert Judgment day is coming,

00:46:01.340 --> 00:46:03.890
and I turn around and
there was Randall Terry.

00:46:04.990 --> 00:46:08.210
One day I get a tip, a
fellow calls me and says,

00:46:09.730 --> 00:46:13.210
I know Randall Terry\'s in your town
talking up traditional marriage,

00:46:13.390 --> 00:46:15.810
but maybe it\'s time he\'d take
a look into his own soul.

00:46:16.270 --> 00:46:19.410
He tells me that Randall Terry had
left his wife for another woman,

00:46:20.470 --> 00:46:22.210
yet he still wore a wedding ring.

00:46:22.830 --> 00:46:26.770
He didn\'t obviously want people in
Vermont to know that his own traditional

00:46:27.010 --> 00:46:30.360
marriage didn\'t work out quite
as well as he had hoped for it.

00:46:31.500 --> 00:46:35.090
There were two nights of
public hearings at the time.

00:46:35.090 --> 00:46:38.730
There were maybe 630,000
people who lived in Vermont,

00:46:39.270 --> 00:46:42.360
and I\'ll tell you, a good percentage
of \'em descended on the State House.

00:46:43.110 --> 00:46:47.330
One of the many great things about the
Vermont legislative process was that the

00:46:47.330 --> 00:46:51.170
legislature wanted to hear not
only from experts and advocates,

00:46:51.750 --> 00:46:54.970
but from all Vermonters who
had a perspective to share.

00:46:56.740 --> 00:47:01.570
There were several statewide hearings
in Montpelier where people could come to

00:47:01.570 --> 00:47:05.650
the State House and testify.
I came up for all of those.

00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:08.170
State House was jammed, jammed,

00:47:08.510 --> 00:47:12.360
and at some point decided to leave the
chamber because I wanted to see what was

00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:13.193
happening outside.

00:47:13.780 --> 00:47:18.530
3000 People showed up on
the front steps of the

00:47:18.530 --> 00:47:20.930
State House. They are angry.

00:47:21.460 --> 00:47:25.130
Civil unions is essentially
marriage without the marriage work.

00:47:25.670 --> 00:47:28.570
The people that lied to,
they\'ve been cheated,

00:47:29.110 --> 00:47:33.210
and that\'s the anger you have to worry
about because it doesn\'t go away.

00:47:34.250 --> 00:47:35.730
I went outside, it was freezing.

00:47:36.680 --> 00:47:41.650
Then I walked among some of the people
trying to make eye contact and I

00:47:41.650 --> 00:47:43.410
was just overcome with this feeling of

00:47:46.300 --> 00:47:50.290
these could have been my neighbors
growing up and my family members for that

00:47:50.290 --> 00:47:54.110
matter. I realized when you\'re in
a fight for your common humanity,

00:47:55.300 --> 00:47:57.720
you cannot discount the
common humanity of others.

00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:03.280
I was really troubled,
extreme, a lot of angst.

00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:08.000
I hadn\'t yet screwed up my
courage, but I just thought,

00:48:09.030 --> 00:48:12.000
I\'ve got to make a decision, and I said,

00:48:12.710 --> 00:48:14.520
I\'ve got to be on the
right side of this issue

00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:20.880
and the right side is to support
it, and from that point on,

00:48:22.580 --> 00:48:24.960
it was like a weight
lifting from my shoulders.

00:48:27.820 --> 00:48:32.560
The day the house did their
final vote on the law for civil

00:48:32.700 --> 00:48:36.000
unions, we weren\'t sure
which way it was going to go.

00:48:36.220 --> 00:48:37.590
It was still up in the air.

00:48:38.020 --> 00:48:42.240
We speak and we listened
to what people have to say.

00:48:43.140 --> 00:48:46.480
We listened to the other side. We
listen to what they have to say.

00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:51.640
That\'s the way that we conduct business
here and shall continue to do so

00:48:52.130 --> 00:48:54.920
based on over 200 years of precedent.

00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:59.760
We were all very nervous. Even
Beth and Susan were nervous, but.

00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:03.320
I will not support the
legalization of sodomy,

00:49:03.500 --> 00:49:07.680
the tearing down of traditional marriage
in this country by the passage of this

00:49:07.740 --> 00:49:08.460
law,

00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:13.280
and I truly feel sorry for the state
of Vermont that this can happen here

00:49:13.300 --> 00:49:18.040
and for our nation because I believe
that we are really putting ourselves in a

00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:22.590
dangerous situation in regard to a
judgment from the Almighty God. Thank you,

00:49:22.590 --> 00:49:23.423
Mr. Speaker.

00:49:23.860 --> 00:49:25.560
The house was on the floor for hours.

00:49:25.610 --> 00:49:29.320
It must\'ve been 12 hours and it
was toward the end of that day.

00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:30.920
It must\'ve been eight or
nine o\'clock at night,

00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:35.880
and Bill Lippert rose and
spoke and it was quiet.

00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:41.590
I think it\'s very important
as we listen and as we

00:49:41.610 --> 00:49:43.480
debate and as we make decisions

00:49:46.630 --> 00:49:49.280
that you understand what the reality is

00:49:51.050 --> 00:49:52.360
about gay and lesbian people

00:49:54.070 --> 00:49:56.930
and gay and lesbian couples passing.

00:49:57.150 --> 00:50:01.130
The bill that the House Judiciary
Committee has brought forward will not end

00:50:02.030 --> 00:50:06.170
discrimination. It will not end
prejudice. It will not end hate,

00:50:07.510 --> 00:50:09.840
but it will grant rights.

00:50:11.610 --> 00:50:13.710
The rights that I don\'t have right now

00:50:15.810 --> 00:50:17.670
and most everyone else
in this chamber does.

00:50:18.930 --> 00:50:23.710
Bill\'s speech was amazing and because
they knew Bill, he was one of them,

00:50:24.630 --> 00:50:25.630
I think it really hit home.

00:50:26.860 --> 00:50:31.840
They finally started the vote and Lois
was keeping track for and against,

00:50:32.390 --> 00:50:35.290
for and against, and were counting them.

00:50:36.040 --> 00:50:40.250
Soon as we saw we had
enough votes. It was like,

00:50:41.070 --> 00:50:41.903
we can relax.

00:50:42.610 --> 00:50:47.530
Those voting. Yes, 79,
those voting, no, 68,

00:50:51.750 --> 00:50:53.130
congratulations. Thank.

00:50:53.130 --> 00:50:56.610
You. Congratulations.
It\'s just incredible day.

00:50:57.390 --> 00:50:58.360
It was amazing.

00:50:59.830 --> 00:51:04.360
We could become legally connected.

00:51:05.630 --> 00:51:07.170
We had won that.

00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:08.003
Step.

00:51:08.150 --> 00:51:11.810
Gay couples in Vermont will soon get
the same rights and benefits as married

00:51:11.810 --> 00:51:12.970
heterosexual couples.

00:51:13.110 --> 00:51:16.770
The governor is expected to sign the
civil union\'s bill into law later this

00:51:16.770 --> 00:51:18.170
week. With that signature,

00:51:18.190 --> 00:51:21.090
the Green Mountain state will go
where no state has gone before.

00:51:21.860 --> 00:51:26.170
And I think starting today,
the healing process now begins.

00:51:26.790 --> 00:51:30.410
The passage of civil union in Vermont
established the principle that we could

00:51:30.430 --> 00:51:33.210
win, that we could win something bigger
than most people had ever dreamed.

00:51:33.210 --> 00:51:37.130
We were going to achieve state
level recognition of gay families.

00:51:37.630 --> 00:51:40.930
The magic of Vermont, the
magic of civil unions in 2000.

00:51:41.030 --> 00:51:45.890
The reason why it was so historic
was because for the first time ever,

00:51:46.830 --> 00:51:51.810
gay and lesbian couples statewide had
rights and responsibilities and were

00:51:51.810 --> 00:51:53.490
acknowledged for being couples.

00:51:53.950 --> 00:51:57.610
We had every reason to
celebrate, but we weren\'t done.

00:51:58.490 --> 00:52:03.360
I knew we had to keep working
however long it took to

00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:08.360
get to full equality, full inclusion,
civil, married for same-sex couples.

00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:26.430
Peter and I had a wonderful civil union.

00:52:26.530 --> 00:52:29.590
We actually call it our holy and civil
Union because it took place in the

00:52:29.590 --> 00:52:31.310
Episcopal Cathedral in Burlington.

00:52:32.330 --> 00:52:37.190
We declare that they are united and
joined to one another as partners in

00:52:37.310 --> 00:52:38.670
fully and civil union,

00:52:39.550 --> 00:52:43.110
a psalm and joyful covenant
of love in the name of God,

00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:48.110
those whom God has joined
together, let no one who is sunder.

00:52:56.590 --> 00:53:00.650
In 1992, Stacey and I, we had a
ceremony that we designed ourselves.

00:53:01.250 --> 00:53:05.290
I wore my white lace dress and Stacey
wore her tails and her top hat.

00:53:07.190 --> 00:53:10.360
It was totally significant to
us even though it wasn\'t legal.

00:53:11.200 --> 00:53:12.490
When civil unions passed,

00:53:12.710 --> 00:53:16.810
we wanted to have access to
those benefits and rights

00:53:17.510 --> 00:53:19.490
and to be a family in
every sense of the word.

00:53:21.390 --> 00:53:25.810
Our civil union was a beautiful
summer day in Vermont.

00:53:26.200 --> 00:53:29.290
Lots of friends and relatives
came at the same time.

00:53:29.380 --> 00:53:33.810
There was an anti-social union
demonstration on the capital steps,

00:53:34.340 --> 00:53:39.210
and we had more people in our ceremony
than they had in their demonstration.

00:53:39.670 --> 00:53:43.570
By the end of today, we will
be, believe it or not, legally

00:53:45.160 --> 00:53:50.050
connected to each other and it\'s
nice after all this time to be able

00:53:50.050 --> 00:53:51.490
to say that all is my spouse.

00:53:55.240 --> 00:53:59.210
Couples from all over the country and
in fact all over the world came to

00:53:59.320 --> 00:54:01.450
Vermont, little Vermont for civil union.

00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:06.730
When Vermont happened,
when civil unions happened,

00:54:07.070 --> 00:54:11.130
we thought we want to be as married
as two men can be in this country.

00:54:11.390 --> 00:54:16.250
We want to be as committed to one
another as is humanly and legally

00:54:16.810 --> 00:54:17.590
possible.

00:54:17.590 --> 00:54:22.090
When I met Tom, marriage wasn\'t even.
There was no gay marriage movement.

00:54:22.450 --> 00:54:24.730
I could write about it in
play meant getting married,

00:54:24.830 --> 00:54:26.770
but I didn\'t think it would be a reality.

00:54:27.310 --> 00:54:30.330
We heard about this great
inn in Vermont and said,

00:54:30.460 --> 00:54:33.050
let\'s just treat ourselves
with a civil union.

00:54:34.170 --> 00:54:38.330
I don\'t think either of us fully
knew how perfect that moment

00:54:38.860 --> 00:54:39.693
would be.

00:54:41.410 --> 00:54:43.090
I am there for you for
the rest of my life.

00:54:44.040 --> 00:54:46.330
It\'s a very profound pledge
to make to another person,

00:54:46.910 --> 00:54:50.450
and it makes me feel safer,
more protected, happier,

00:54:51.550 --> 00:54:56.500
calmer. I\'m not alone in the
world as much as I love Tom.

00:54:57.090 --> 00:55:02.020
I never had that feeling until
we stood in Vermont and that inn

00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:03.610
and said the words to each other.

00:55:06.340 --> 00:55:11.210
The irony is that it
wasn\'t until after the law

00:55:11.210 --> 00:55:14.490
passed that things got
really ugly in Vermont.

00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:18.650
Something about the climate
changed in a bad way.

00:55:19.110 --> 00:55:24.090
People who heretofore
had been unwilling or

00:55:24.270 --> 00:55:28.360
unable or scared to express their
homophobia and their hatred of gay people

00:55:28.810 --> 00:55:30.530
suddenly felt like they
had permission to do so.

00:55:34.470 --> 00:55:39.250
The focal point of LGBT equality was
going to be decided in these elections.

00:55:40.340 --> 00:55:45.010
If the Republicans would\'ve taken back
control of the house and the Senate and

00:55:45.010 --> 00:55:47.530
won the governorship,
which all was possible,

00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:52.360
then it would\'ve sent shivers across
the spines of any politician across

00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:53.770
America. Groups.

00:55:53.790 --> 00:55:55.530
Sprung up all around the state,

00:55:55.880 --> 00:56:00.250
organized around the idea of
if we don\'t do something now,

00:56:01.080 --> 00:56:05.650
they\'re taking the state away from
our kids and we want our state back.

00:56:07.340 --> 00:56:09.250
We finally got organized
with take back Vermont.

00:56:10.340 --> 00:56:14.930
It was 24 7 pedal to the
metal. Before I knew it,

00:56:15.340 --> 00:56:19.330
we became the focus of
the opposition in Vermont.

00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:23.770
They were of takeback, Vermont
signs everywhere, lots of them,

00:56:24.390 --> 00:56:26.050
and the left went ballistic.

00:56:26.770 --> 00:56:28.410
I was in demand. I didn\'t
want to be in demand.

00:56:28.450 --> 00:56:29.840
I didn\'t want to be a leader of anything.

00:56:30.200 --> 00:56:31.770
Just wanted to get some information out,

00:56:31.830 --> 00:56:34.330
but we had started something and
so we were going to see it through.

00:56:36.990 --> 00:56:41.840
We packaged the videos with other
literature and we sent that material

00:56:41.910 --> 00:56:44.970
to every legislator in the
state of Vermont twice.

00:56:46.150 --> 00:56:49.930
The battle in this country between those
holding to traditional morality and

00:56:49.930 --> 00:56:53.050
those espousing hedonism
has reached a fever pitch,

00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:58.210
manifested in no clearer terms than the
ideological conflict over homosexuality.

00:56:59.030 --> 00:57:03.840
Our view was that the
only opportunity we had to

00:57:03.910 --> 00:57:06.730
try and stop this was to knock the engine,

00:57:06.730 --> 00:57:08.490
which was Governor Dean off the tracks.

00:57:08.830 --> 00:57:13.650
The major reason that I ran
for reelection in 2000 was to

00:57:13.930 --> 00:57:15.530
validate what we had
done with civil unions.

00:57:15.750 --> 00:57:18.530
It was clearly the nastiest
time in Vermont politics.

00:57:18.650 --> 00:57:19.890
Certainly since I\'ve been here.

00:57:21.330 --> 00:57:22.690
I was a Republican nominee.

00:57:22.730 --> 00:57:25.170
I won my primary and I was
running against Howard Dean.

00:57:25.770 --> 00:57:29.530
I had run against him in
98 as well, but in 2000,

00:57:29.870 --> 00:57:32.530
the atmosphere was far more charged.

00:57:33.610 --> 00:57:35.570
I was opposed to gay marriage. I still am.

00:57:35.930 --> 00:57:38.730
I do believe homosexuality is not the way

00:57:40.750 --> 00:57:42.610
nature intended people to behave.

00:57:43.700 --> 00:57:47.810
There was clearly a group of people
somewhere somehow and I would assume a

00:57:48.010 --> 00:57:51.570
national level. Maybe they were
international. I don\'t know.

00:57:52.300 --> 00:57:55.890
There was clearly people banded
together and said, we want to ban guns.

00:57:55.990 --> 00:57:59.050
We want to legalize abortion.
We want whatever we want to do.

00:57:59.110 --> 00:58:02.370
We want to promote same sex marriage.
Well, how are we going to do that?

00:58:02.380 --> 00:58:04.290
We\'ll form a group, we\'ll find a state.

00:58:04.680 --> 00:58:09.610
Beth and I believe that our job
at that point was to try to help

00:58:10.050 --> 00:58:14.330
reelect the legislators who had stuck
their necks out and it supported civil

00:58:14.330 --> 00:58:17.490
unions, so we marshaled volunteers

00:58:19.150 --> 00:58:22.650
and raised money and did
everything we possibly could.

00:58:24.310 --> 00:58:29.090
We are here today because so many
of our fellow Vermonters had the

00:58:29.090 --> 00:58:33.930
vision to identify one of the key
issues of our time and the courage to

00:58:33.930 --> 00:58:37.810
stand up and act. These
people were there for us.

00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:40.170
They have taken an incredible
amount of heat for us.

00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:44.370
This is our time to be there for them.

00:58:46.350 --> 00:58:48.330
People like John Edwards from Swanton

00:58:49.830 --> 00:58:52.450
opened his heart and his mind
and he listened to the testimony.

00:58:52.510 --> 00:58:56.930
For weeks and weeks we\'ve got Marian Mill
who challenged herself to do the right

00:58:56.930 --> 00:58:58.050
thing for her grandkids.

00:59:05.990 --> 00:59:08.030
I was elected as a Republican,

00:59:08.690 --> 00:59:13.350
but I voted for civil
unions and since then

00:59:13.460 --> 00:59:16.190
I\'ve never had one minute of regret.

00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:20.120
I love being in the house.

00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:25.330
I thought it was one of the greatest
and humbling experiences I\'ve ever

00:59:25.430 --> 00:59:26.260
had.

00:59:26.260 --> 00:59:31.170
We\'re asked to prove whether we are
as tolerant and democratic as we say

00:59:31.230 --> 00:59:32.063
we are

00:59:33.680 --> 00:59:38.390
democratic in the sense that we
are willing to recognize the full

00:59:38.450 --> 00:59:41.270
rights of gay and lesbian Vermont.

00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:43.270
After the vote.

00:59:44.020 --> 00:59:48.790
Many houses that I had been to that
were very friendly to me before,

00:59:50.070 --> 00:59:52.710
I wasn\'t welcoming them anymore.

00:59:53.970 --> 00:59:58.790
One person that I knew and
respected called me up,

00:59:59.950 --> 01:00:03.110
I can\'t believe, Anne, you lied to me.

01:00:04.010 --> 01:00:07.670
You lied to the voters. I\'ll
never speak to you again.

01:00:09.710 --> 01:00:12.670
I had several people that I
cared about say that to me.

01:00:15.690 --> 01:00:18.390
It was a surreal experience.

01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:22.230
You\'d knock on a door and they\'d say, oh,

01:00:23.730 --> 01:00:26.710
you\'re the gay lover. Slam
the door in your face.

01:00:27.970 --> 01:00:30.790
One in particular called
me lower than whale Don.

01:00:32.410 --> 01:00:36.070
If I lost, I can probably,
probably by two to one or better,

01:00:37.290 --> 01:00:38.123
and.

01:00:38.970 --> 01:00:40.390
It was tough and it was brutal.

01:00:40.580 --> 01:00:44.030
They got some polling numbers that
showed that Ruth Dwyer was going to win,

01:00:44.290 --> 01:00:45.590
and we knew that if that happened,

01:00:45.590 --> 01:00:48.550
that was the end of marriage equality
in this country for a long, long time.

01:00:48.930 --> 01:00:51.230
So we did lose the house.
It went Republican big time.

01:00:51.670 --> 01:00:54.830
I held the Senate by one single
vote and it was very hard to hold,

01:00:55.090 --> 01:00:56.110
and people don\'t remember this,

01:00:56.110 --> 01:01:00.270
but Howard Dean won reelection by
one single point in this state.

01:01:01.020 --> 01:01:03.350
When I lost the election, I really,

01:01:03.570 --> 01:01:08.350
really suffered for a long time because
I felt I had let some very good people

01:01:08.350 --> 01:01:09.870
down. Now,

01:01:09.990 --> 01:01:14.270
I pretty much raised dogs and
horses and cows and live on a farm.

01:01:15.050 --> 01:01:18.790
Why I like to be around the
animals because they\'re simple,

01:01:19.680 --> 01:01:24.030
unaffected, predictable, and
they have the right priorities.

01:01:26.390 --> 01:01:28.420
After the election,
and we all recuperated,

01:01:30.210 --> 01:01:33.460
many of the leaders within take back
Vermont formed an organization that was

01:01:33.700 --> 01:01:38.420
ultimately called Vermont Renewal. The
gay and homosexual lobby is expansive,

01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:41.700
and so we went into the schools.

01:01:42.240 --> 01:01:46.420
We were able to eliminate a lot of that
material that was clearly propaganda

01:01:46.420 --> 01:01:48.940
means there were six resource
libraries that we had shut down.

01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:51.980
But when they start
teaching that all of these

01:01:53.850 --> 01:01:58.300
ways of living together are equal
and the same and you have children

01:01:58.700 --> 01:01:59.533
involved in it,

01:02:02.490 --> 01:02:04.700
then where do you draw the
line? As others have said,

01:02:05.080 --> 01:02:09.060
what\'s wrong with having three
people in this situation, right,

01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:11.020
two people and a dog.

01:02:12.560 --> 01:02:17.340
You don\'t even understand what
freedom is until it\'s challenged.

01:02:17.730 --> 01:02:18.480
It\'s true.

01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:22.050
And that\'s when I realized how Hitler or
somebody like that could come to power.

01:02:22.490 --> 01:02:25.410
I thought. I always wondered
how could he ever come to power.

01:02:25.850 --> 01:02:26.683
I know now

01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:32.950
after the election in November, 2000,

01:02:33.090 --> 01:02:35.670
the house became an
anti-SIM unions and chamber.

01:02:36.420 --> 01:02:41.150
They started having hearings about
repealing the civil union\'s law.

01:02:41.860 --> 01:02:46.070
Beth and I had to go back and testify
all over again, and it was an incredibly

01:02:47.780 --> 01:02:49.630
painful period.

01:02:50.900 --> 01:02:55.310
They actively brought people into
the State House to do seminars on the

01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:58.590
immorality of gay and
lesbian people. Ultimately,

01:02:58.680 --> 01:03:02.030
civil unions was repealed
on the floor of the house,

01:03:02.530 --> 01:03:04.310
but was blocked by the Senate.

01:03:04.850 --> 01:03:07.870
It was a helpful reminder of just

01:03:10.010 --> 01:03:13.910
how hard fought the civil union victory
was and how hard we were going to have

01:03:14.310 --> 01:03:15.990
to work to move forward.

01:03:17.420 --> 01:03:21.390
What has been wonderful about Karen all
these years and through everything that

01:03:22.160 --> 01:03:27.110
we\'ve been through is that
she\'s always been supportive

01:03:27.210 --> 01:03:28.950
of what Beth and I were doing.

01:03:29.290 --> 01:03:31.590
No matter how much time it
took away from the household,

01:03:33.050 --> 01:03:34.990
no matter how stressful it was,

01:03:37.140 --> 01:03:38.430
come 2003,

01:03:38.930 --> 01:03:43.510
my practice was taking off at the law
firm and I just didn\'t have the time

01:03:43.620 --> 01:03:48.430
anymore to devote to working
for marriage equality.

01:03:48.720 --> 01:03:53.150
There was no energy for it in the
state. Nobody wanted to do anything.

01:03:53.690 --> 01:03:55.230
The gay community was tired.

01:03:56.210 --> 01:04:00.990
The political class was sick of
hearing from us, and I was burned out.

01:04:00.990 --> 01:04:04.000
To be honest, I can remember getting.

01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:07.520
Home at 11 at night and you were going
to pick me up at six the next morning,

01:04:07.580 --> 01:04:12.080
and so I had seven hours to
do my days of my job work,

01:04:12.620 --> 01:04:16.080
eat dinner, sleep, visit with
him, take a shower. Yeah,

01:04:16.350 --> 01:04:18.640
make breakfast and get up and
do the same thing again. Yeah.

01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:24.120
I wouldn\'t trade the years
of meeting really interesting

01:04:24.120 --> 01:04:28.160
people and traveling around and being
engaged and getting to know the state in a

01:04:28.160 --> 01:04:31.040
way that I never would\'ve. I
wouldn\'t trade that for anything, so.

01:04:31.070 --> 01:04:34.680
It\'s not, I know, but we were
exhausted all the time. Frankly,

01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:39.040
I needed to take a break. I
dropped out of the battle,

01:04:39.620 --> 01:04:44.200
so Beth, bless her, kept
plugging away as Susan\'s.

01:04:44.200 --> 01:04:47.960
Friend. I totally understood it
as her partner in this effort.

01:04:48.560 --> 01:04:53.000
I can\'t deny that it was hard at
first, but Susan never went away.

01:04:53.580 --> 01:04:58.520
She was always a source of good
advice and she was always a friend,

01:05:00.220 --> 01:05:01.120
and in the meantime,

01:05:02.640 --> 01:05:07.440
a number of other really key
people came onto the scene that

01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:11.560
might not have, if Susan had stayed
around, people like Sherry Corbin,

01:05:11.620 --> 01:05:16.360
who really was a pillar of the
Vermont freedom to marry task force

01:05:16.460 --> 01:05:17.293
for a decade.

01:05:17.470 --> 01:05:18.303
And I remember.

01:05:18.930 --> 01:05:19.540
Covering.

01:05:19.540 --> 01:05:20.290
Miles and.

01:05:20.290 --> 01:05:20.890
Miles and.

01:05:20.890 --> 01:05:25.890
Miles of territory walking
into a house and the woman in

01:05:25.890 --> 01:05:30.570
the house running up and giving
you a hug and then saying,

01:05:30.680 --> 01:05:31.513
good luck with him,

01:05:33.070 --> 01:05:37.810
and then dragging her husband up
and having a real debate about it.

01:05:37.950 --> 01:05:42.300
So the house itself was divided,

01:05:42.680 --> 01:05:45.460
but humorously divided.

01:05:46.250 --> 01:05:50.340
Freedom to marry crisscrossed all over
this state to hold a public meeting or to

01:05:50.340 --> 01:05:54.380
hold a house meeting, we would call
them, and in having nobody show up,

01:05:57.110 --> 01:05:59.200
that was frequently the situation,

01:06:00.220 --> 01:06:03.160
and we would go anywhere
anybody wanted to talk.

01:06:03.940 --> 01:06:06.760
So number one, why marriage? Why are
we doing this? Why is this important?

01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:09.000
Especially after we went through all
that, we went through, 2000 gets.

01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:10.160
To the unions. We.

01:06:10.160 --> 01:06:13.120
Were hitting every spot in the state.

01:06:14.220 --> 01:06:16.400
Wasn\'t the kind of work
that was getting headlines,

01:06:16.500 --> 01:06:20.440
but it was the kind of work we knew we
had to do to steadily rebuild and when

01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:23.680
the story that our loss tells a story
of separation and exclusion that affects

01:06:23.680 --> 01:06:27.600
every single one of us, gay and straight,
single and coupled, old or young,

01:06:28.190 --> 01:06:31.080
wanting to marry or not wanting
to marry. It isn\'t just.

01:06:31.080 --> 01:06:33.120
About the committed couples
and same-sex relationships.

01:06:33.120 --> 01:06:33.953
You want to marry.

01:06:34.500 --> 01:06:38.440
It really is about a broader civil rights
movement and a broader movement for

01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:43.000
inclusion. And I have to say that for
me, that really is what this is about.

01:06:43.510 --> 01:06:47.320
Some of the hardest times were
those long years in between

01:06:49.510 --> 01:06:50.343
when

01:06:51.310 --> 01:06:55.080
getting to the goal seemed
so far away and so elusive,

01:06:55.700 --> 01:07:00.280
and the work felt so not rewarding,
but you knew you had to do it.

01:07:01.950 --> 01:07:06.920
Vermont created the atmosphere
and the foundation to have

01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:08.720
this conversation on a national basis.

01:07:09.560 --> 01:07:13.720
I think Vermont\'s experience
taught people how to talk about it,

01:07:14.260 --> 01:07:17.160
taught people that they
could talk about it.

01:07:17.450 --> 01:07:18.320
After Vermont,

01:07:18.750 --> 01:07:22.680
glad moved forward with a
marriage case in Massachusetts.

01:07:24.030 --> 01:07:27.800
Good evening. It is one of the most
contentious questions in America today.

01:07:28.060 --> 01:07:30.880
Should gay people have
the right to marry today,

01:07:30.900 --> 01:07:34.600
the Massachusetts State Supreme Court
ordered that state to do just that.

01:07:35.240 --> 01:07:40.120
Legalize gay marriages ruling that a ban
on such marriages is unconstitutional.

01:07:40.180 --> 01:07:41.013
In Massachusetts.

01:07:41.350 --> 01:07:45.640
Massachusetts became the first state in
the country to allow gay people to get

01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:46.140
married,

01:07:46.140 --> 01:07:51.040
and they did that as a result of a
Supreme Court decision in that state and

01:07:51.040 --> 01:07:54.400
that case. That was Mary
Benado\'s case. That was her case.

01:07:54.900 --> 01:07:58.080
She had, as much as I whine about
how hard we worked in Vermont,

01:07:58.100 --> 01:08:00.160
she was carrying multiple
other states at the same time.

01:08:00.300 --> 01:08:03.480
She was doing the same thing
many places. That was huge.

01:08:04.700 --> 01:08:08.080
Now finally, these couples who\'ve
been together years, if not decades,

01:08:08.590 --> 01:08:13.080
will finally have the chance to be
treated equally and fairly by their

01:08:13.080 --> 01:08:15.690
government and have the right
to join In civil marriage.

01:08:16.100 --> 01:08:20.730
We made the same key and
core equality and liberty

01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:26.330
arguments that we had made in Vermont
and the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial

01:08:26.330 --> 01:08:31.170
Court broke that historic barrier and
found that excluding same-sex couples from

01:08:31.480 --> 01:08:34.130
marriage violates that
state\'s constitution.

01:08:35.310 --> 01:08:37.250
For a four year period,

01:08:38.290 --> 01:08:40.690
Republicans dominated the legislature,

01:08:40.750 --> 01:08:45.690
so therefore marriage was off the
table and then Democrats took over the

01:08:45.690 --> 01:08:50.010
legislature again and there was a glimmer
of hope in Beth\'s eye about getting it

01:08:50.010 --> 01:08:50.630
done.

01:08:50.630 --> 01:08:53.290
We could have gone back to court. That
was one of the options we considered.

01:08:54.230 --> 01:08:57.970
We wanted to rebut this notion that

01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:02.090
people\'s elected representatives
would never go for this,

01:09:02.160 --> 01:09:06.090
that this is something that was being
crammed down America\'s throat by unelected

01:09:06.090 --> 01:09:06.923
judges.

01:09:07.350 --> 01:09:08.183
It was important

01:09:09.920 --> 01:09:14.700
to pass marriage somewhere legislatively
because the opposition was saying,

01:09:14.700 --> 01:09:19.380
take it to the people.
The opposition was saying,

01:09:19.380 --> 01:09:21.770
the only reason we have
marriage is because of courts.

01:09:22.440 --> 01:09:23.273
Nobody,

01:09:24.160 --> 01:09:28.540
no state had passed marriage
equality by legislation

01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:30.660
and that was our goal.

01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:34.220
Hi, how you doing today? I\'s Tom
with Vermont Freedom to marry?

01:09:34.220 --> 01:09:36.340
Would you like a pin?
Thank you. You\'re welcome.

01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:40.100
Beth Robinson and
Vermont Freedom to Marry.

01:09:40.170 --> 01:09:45.140
They win district by district organizing
everyday Vermonters, gay and lesbian,

01:09:45.190 --> 01:09:48.810
Vermonters and family
members very strategically.

01:09:49.330 --> 01:09:52.300
They would find people that went to
high school with some legislators.

01:09:52.300 --> 01:09:54.850
They would find the
right religious people.

01:09:54.970 --> 01:09:57.380
They would find the business
leaders to talk to those people.

01:09:57.730 --> 01:10:02.300
They would find donors to the campaign
and talk to these legislators.

01:10:02.310 --> 01:10:06.260
It was just absolutely brilliant
and it was laser focused.

01:10:07.230 --> 01:10:08.540
Now is the time for action.

01:10:09.230 --> 01:10:13.220
Every single one of you who knows
anyone anywhere in this state,

01:10:13.350 --> 01:10:14.260
you need to call them.

01:10:15.400 --> 01:10:20.180
You need to call them and ask them
to call their representative because

01:10:20.590 --> 01:10:22.770
minds can be changed like that.

01:10:25.080 --> 01:10:29.810
In the fall of 2008, we worked hard to
try to get Senator Shumlin on board.

01:10:30.350 --> 01:10:34.660
We knew his heart was with us and it
was a matter of persuading him that the

01:10:34.660 --> 01:10:38.500
politics had changed and that he
wasn\'t going to be taking his caucus,

01:10:38.500 --> 01:10:40.300
taking his people

01:10:42.290 --> 01:10:44.380
into some fire where they
were going to get burned.

01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:49.730
She had this determination
about her message and as
did a number of other people

01:10:49.730 --> 01:10:53.140
in the room, in fairness to
Beth, where I thought, wow,

01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:58.220
if this woman and this group can really
do this, we can actually get this done.

01:10:59.060 --> 01:11:03.180
Peter Shumlin knew that the house
was where the play was going to be,

01:11:03.350 --> 01:11:05.810
and so he worked very
closely with Shap Smith,

01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:08.980
who was newly elected as
speaker of the house. I.

01:11:08.980 --> 01:11:11.460
Always was interested in
politics as a young kid,

01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:15.250
but I was reignited in
my interest in politics,

01:11:15.250 --> 01:11:17.130
quite frankly by the civil union\'s issue.

01:11:17.210 --> 01:11:21.970
I saw people were willing to put their

01:11:22.450 --> 01:11:24.370
personal philosophy on the line,

01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:28.730
even knowing that they perhaps
were facing political danger.

01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:33.730
I got a new faith in
what politics could do.

01:11:34.870 --> 01:11:37.560
The bill was very simple. It was a
short bill. It wasn\'t a complex bill.

01:11:37.870 --> 01:11:42.730
It simply said that the gender requirement
in marriage would no longer apply,

01:11:43.080 --> 01:11:44.290
that a person can marry a person.

01:11:44.750 --> 01:11:46.850
We passed it overwhelmingly
on the floor of the Senate,

01:11:47.160 --> 01:11:48.810
sent it over the house
who did the same thing.

01:11:48.830 --> 01:11:50.290
We sent it to the governor\'s desk.

01:11:50.870 --> 01:11:54.730
We thought for sure to be honest that
the Republican governor Jim Douglas would

01:11:54.730 --> 01:11:55.563
sign that bill.

01:11:56.670 --> 01:11:57.850
In all my great wisdom

01:12:00.220 --> 01:12:04.410
throughout the fall of 2008
and into the early part of

01:12:04.410 --> 01:12:05.330
2009,

01:12:07.690 --> 01:12:12.520
I had assured anybody who was
concerned that Governor Douglass would

01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:16.370
sign this bill or at a minimum let it
pass into law without his signature.

01:12:17.480 --> 01:12:21.130
I was convinced that Governor
Douglass would not veto this bill

01:12:22.350 --> 01:12:27.130
and I was wrong, very, very wrong.

01:12:28.350 --> 01:12:28.850
As you know,

01:12:28.850 --> 01:12:32.170
it\'s been a policy of mine not to
announce whether or not I will veto a bill

01:12:32.170 --> 01:12:35.480
before it reaches my desk.
During these extraordinary times,

01:12:36.100 --> 01:12:40.810
the speculation about my decision has
added to the anxiety of the moment and

01:12:40.810 --> 01:12:43.050
further diverts attention
from our most pressing issues,

01:12:43.630 --> 01:12:48.370
and I cannot allow that to happen
for those reasons and because I

01:12:48.370 --> 01:12:51.010
believe that by removing any
uncertainty about my position,

01:12:51.390 --> 01:12:53.850
we can move forward more
quickly beyond this debate.

01:12:54.310 --> 01:12:57.970
I\'m announcing that I intend to veto
this legislation when it reaches my desk.

01:12:58.670 --> 01:12:59.890
Our own governor stood up,

01:13:00.190 --> 01:13:04.010
called us a distraction and said that
our civil rights weren\'t worthy of

01:13:04.130 --> 01:13:06.770
attention this year and
that he would veto them.

01:13:09.590 --> 01:13:11.250
The task doesn\'t end with the governor.

01:13:11.250 --> 01:13:14.410
The task ends right here in the
legislature with our leadership,

01:13:14.410 --> 01:13:18.450
with our elected representatives,
and the battle is by no means. Over.

01:13:19.190 --> 01:13:20.023
An hour later,

01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:24.250
Beth Robinson\'s in our door saying,

01:13:24.790 --> 01:13:27.170
we need a new ad in 24 hours,

01:13:28.060 --> 01:13:31.850
and we looked at each other
and said, okay, we can do that.

01:13:32.630 --> 01:13:36.930
We are your neighbors, farmers, teachers,
and clerks at the grocery store.

01:13:37.190 --> 01:13:40.290
We are your sons and daughters,
your parents and grandparents.

01:13:40.870 --> 01:13:43.690
We are not a distraction,
as the governor suggests,

01:13:43.870 --> 01:13:48.210
we seek nothing more nor less than
fairness for all Vermont\'s families.

01:13:48.680 --> 01:13:52.010
Urge your representatives to protect
civil rights for all Vermonters.

01:13:53.200 --> 01:13:58.170
They were promoting a
view of homosexuality that
would be palatable to the

01:13:58.170 --> 01:14:03.010
Vermont citizens and would
pull on the heartstrings of

01:14:03.010 --> 01:14:06.850
Vermont citizens and boy, some
of their stuff pulled on mine.

01:14:09.010 --> 01:14:11.330
Suddenly we needed
every vote we could get.

01:14:11.710 --> 01:14:14.970
We didn\'t just need a majority
in the House and Senate.

01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:16.290
We needed a super majority.

01:14:16.290 --> 01:14:19.770
We needed a two thirds majority
in both the Senate and the House.

01:14:20.420 --> 01:14:24.210
Susan came back on board and rekindled
some of those relationships that she had

01:14:24.210 --> 01:14:26.850
with the legislature, which was
something we definitely needed.

01:14:27.910 --> 01:14:31.930
And they override votes in both chambers
were scheduled for Tuesday morning.

01:14:32.480 --> 01:14:37.330
When I went home on Friday in the house
we had the 97 that we knew of because

01:14:37.330 --> 01:14:41.730
they were on record and we had three
people who had committed privately to

01:14:41.730 --> 01:14:46.050
supporting the override even though they
hadn\'t voted for the underlying bill.

01:14:46.630 --> 01:14:50.770
Monday when we got to the State House,

01:14:53.830 --> 01:14:55.010
we didn\'t have the votes anymore.

01:14:56.100 --> 01:15:00.770
One of the key votes a member had
told some people they were voting

01:15:00.910 --> 01:15:04.290
no and they told others they were
voting yes, and I got to tell you,

01:15:04.290 --> 01:15:07.730
when we left the State house the
night before the vote to override,

01:15:09.020 --> 01:15:12.970
we didn\'t have the votes and we
knew we were short at least by one,

01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:14.433
possibly two.

01:15:15.730 --> 01:15:17.450
I pretty much cried the whole way home.

01:15:18.230 --> 01:15:22.130
It was the lowest time I think
in the whole process for me.

01:15:23.770 --> 01:15:27.330
I felt tremendously supported
by Kim and I think that

01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:31.850
that was the ultimate
comfort through all of this.

01:15:32.330 --> 01:15:37.130
I can\'t imagine doing this or
anything without her by my side.

01:15:39.430 --> 01:15:43.580
Floyd Ne was the majority leader
when I became Speaker of the House.

01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:48.730
Floyd is incredibly compassionate
but forceful individual.

01:15:49.400 --> 01:15:52.700
The morning of the override vote,

01:15:53.390 --> 01:15:55.020
Floyd came and told me,

01:15:55.460 --> 01:15:59.980
I just got a call from the
nursing home where my mom is

01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:04.140
and they\'ve told me that she is dying.

01:16:05.060 --> 01:16:09.580
I don\'t know what to do, and I said,
look, Floyd, your mother\'s dying.

01:16:09.970 --> 01:16:14.260
There\'s no other option.
You should go, and he said,

01:16:15.180 --> 01:16:19.460
I can\'t leave right now. I\'ll
leave as soon as the votes over.

01:16:20.230 --> 01:16:24.540
We knew that we needed every single
vote and not only did we need the votes,

01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:28.300
we needed to have Floyd on the floor
working people to switch their vote

01:16:29.440 --> 01:16:31.060
before the vote had happened.

01:16:31.160 --> 01:16:36.020
He got a call to say that his mom
had died and yet he was able to come

01:16:36.020 --> 01:16:39.660
to the floor and shore people
up. It was really incredible.

01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:46.220
We had to make the decision to take it
to a vote without having the votes in

01:16:46.220 --> 01:16:50.730
hand and we determined
that\'s what we had to do.

01:16:51.600 --> 01:16:55.890
When I came to the podium, quite
frankly, I was scared to death,

01:16:57.100 --> 01:16:58.290
so just as a reminder, yes,

01:16:58.290 --> 01:17:03.010
vote is a vote to override the veto and
no vote is a vote to sustain the veto.

01:17:03.670 --> 01:17:04.850
The clerk shall call the roll.

01:17:05.540 --> 01:17:09.370
Adams of Harland. No
Ainsworth of Royalton.

01:17:10.510 --> 01:17:12.250
It was sort of a feeling of terror,

01:17:12.980 --> 01:17:15.450
but you also have to stand
up there and look confident,

01:17:15.750 --> 01:17:19.450
so I was just trying to make sure that
I looked like I knew what I was doing.

01:17:20.390 --> 01:17:23.770
We had one vote that nobody could talk
to because he was so tenuous and we had

01:17:23.770 --> 01:17:28.130
another vote that we didn\'t
know what was going on and

01:17:28.750 --> 01:17:29.600
I\'m not going to name names,

01:17:29.670 --> 01:17:32.520
but I\'ll say that both of those votes
came at the very end of the alphabet,

01:17:33.220 --> 01:17:37.930
which meant that we weren\'t really going
to know until we got through the roll

01:17:37.930 --> 01:17:38.763
call.

01:17:38.770 --> 01:17:42.520
Louis of Derby. Lippard of Hesberg.

01:17:43.310 --> 01:17:44.143
Yes.

01:17:44.460 --> 01:17:46.010
Laura of Burlington.

01:17:46.430 --> 01:17:47.263
Yes.

01:17:47.730 --> 01:17:52.210
McAllister of Highgate.
McCullough of Williston.

01:17:52.710 --> 01:17:56.290
We had those little pieces of paper
and we were keeping track and it was

01:17:56.760 --> 01:17:57.890
extremely stressful.

01:17:59.090 --> 01:18:04.090
I had a very hard time
composing myself to read the

01:18:04.090 --> 01:18:07.450
vote. Talia, please listen
to the results of your vote.

01:18:09.220 --> 01:18:13.450
Those voting, yes, a
hundred. Those voting no,

01:18:14.380 --> 01:18:16.930
49 a hundred needed to pass.

01:18:17.390 --> 01:18:21.050
You have voted to override the
veto. The house will come to order.

01:18:33.440 --> 01:18:37.130
We\'d been at it for 15 years and

01:18:38.810 --> 01:18:43.770
a lot of people thought we\'d never
get there in our lifetimes and we had

01:18:44.440 --> 01:18:45.410
we\'d done it, we\'d won.

01:18:50.810 --> 01:18:54.330
There are people who took political
risks today because they knew it was the

01:18:54.330 --> 01:18:58.410
right thing to do and they have my
gratitude forever. I\'m relieved.

01:18:58.630 --> 01:18:59.463
I\'m overwhelmed.

01:19:00.480 --> 01:19:05.330
I like 49. I went back to my office,

01:19:05.830 --> 01:19:07.600
closed the door and wept.

01:19:09.200 --> 01:19:12.890
Vermont was the first state to grant
statewide legal recognition to same-sex

01:19:12.890 --> 01:19:16.600
couples nine years ago. Now, Vermont
continues its pioneering ways,

01:19:16.970 --> 01:19:19.450
becoming the first state to
make same-sex marriage, legal,

01:19:19.630 --> 01:19:23.290
not because of a court ruling on
the constitutionality of the issue,

01:19:23.510 --> 01:19:28.480
but because the state legislature
moved proactively to make it a new law.

01:19:30.100 --> 01:19:34.970
There were hundreds of people that
were involved in this movement.

01:19:35.120 --> 01:19:38.930
This was not a gay agenda.
This was a human agenda.

01:19:40.180 --> 01:19:44.810
Truth and fairness and justice and
love are more powerful than one man\'s.

01:19:50.010 --> 01:19:51.890
I do want to recognize the
freedom to marry board.

01:19:51.890 --> 01:19:56.130
They\'ve been slogging away in obscurity
for many years until we got to this last

01:19:56.130 --> 01:19:58.010
year and it\'s been a lot of work.

01:19:58.470 --> 01:20:01.410
It is not the kind of board
you join to pad your resume.

01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:07.600
It\'s the kind of board you join to be
driven to the bone and then driven some.

01:20:09.500 --> 01:20:10.730
We\'re not done. Thank you.

01:20:11.220 --> 01:20:15.170
We\'re not done until every The vote for
this bill in the house and Senate has a

01:20:15.330 --> 01:20:16.163
thousand thank you notes.

01:20:28.750 --> 01:20:33.690
And we\'re not done until every person
who stood up and voted for this bill

01:20:34.020 --> 01:20:36.410
is reelected in November of 2010.

01:20:44.450 --> 01:20:48.330
Marriage is a vital package of
legal rights and responsibilities,

01:20:49.830 --> 01:20:54.600
but it\'s also a symbol of acceptance
by the state and by the community

01:20:54.630 --> 01:20:58.690
at large. When Karen and I got married,

01:20:58.950 --> 01:21:00.770
it meant all of those things and more.

01:21:02.580 --> 01:21:04.250
After two dozen years together,

01:21:04.510 --> 01:21:08.410
it was a way to finally show the world
the commitment that we\'ve always had to

01:21:08.410 --> 01:21:09.243
one another.

01:21:11.270 --> 01:21:15.970
We are so lucky to be alive now and to
be experiencing these changes and to be

01:21:15.970 --> 01:21:16.890
part of making them happen.

01:21:17.790 --> 01:21:22.290
We have come such a long way from being
essentially entire outsiders to the

01:21:22.450 --> 01:21:23.020
constitution,

01:21:23.020 --> 01:21:27.050
to being slowly but surely brought in
to those promises that are there for

01:21:27.290 --> 01:21:28.123
everyone.

01:21:29.470 --> 01:21:33.600
One of the great honors of being governor
is that you get to appoint judges,

01:21:34.430 --> 01:21:35.810
so I went out and looked for the smartest,

01:21:36.160 --> 01:21:40.890
most capable lawyer that I\'d
ever met as my first appointment.

01:21:40.890 --> 01:21:41.723
The Supreme Court.

01:21:42.380 --> 01:21:46.050
There is no one more fair.
There was no one more capable.

01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:51.370
There\'s no one with a finer legal mind
and there\'s no one who is more committed

01:21:51.370 --> 01:21:52.203
to justice,

01:21:52.670 --> 01:21:57.210
to integrity and to doing the right thing
for all the Vermonters than Ben Ross.

01:21:58.050 --> 01:21:58.930
I have Robinson.

01:21:59.190 --> 01:22:02.560
You solemnly affirm that I will pay
for the next chief, the opposite.

01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:07.600
Justice. You solemnly affirm that I\'ll
faithfully execute the ssociate justice.

01:22:15.760 --> 01:22:20.580
I\'d like to think that I\'m a better
person because of the amazing people

01:22:22.210 --> 01:22:24.660
that I\'ve had the
opportunity to work with.

01:22:25.980 --> 01:22:30.980
Think about Holly Lois and need and
Stacy and Stan and Peter and Susan and

01:22:31.050 --> 01:22:35.850
Mary, and the hundreds of people who

01:22:36.650 --> 01:22:39.340
invited me to their living room
to talk to their neighbors.

01:22:40.510 --> 01:22:42.580
Every one of those people
made me a better person.

01:22:44.480 --> 01:22:46.060
Anybody who\'s advocating

01:22:47.720 --> 01:22:51.620
for L-G-B-T-Q rights in any way,
whether it\'s marriage or anything else,

01:22:52.230 --> 01:22:56.980
and whether the advocate is gay or
straight or doesn\'t embrace labels at all,

01:22:58.600 --> 01:23:03.140
we need to understand that
the human piece comes first.

01:23:04.060 --> 01:23:08.850
People\'s heads will follow
if you get their hearts.