Examines the treatment of Japanese-Americans during WW II, and its relevance…
80 Years Later
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Through multigenerational conversations with survivors and their descendants, 80 YEARS LATER (dir. Celine Parreñas Shimizu, THE CELINE ARCHIVE) explores the racial inheritance of Japanese American family incarceration during World War II. The film follows two cousins, Kiyo and Robert, respectively a teenager and child living in the San Francisco Bay Area in 1942 when Executive Order 9066 – which forcibly imprisoned 120,000 Japanese Americans in World War II – was signed. Eighty years later, the cousins continue to grapple with the meaning of their incarceration and its impact on their lives, ancestors, and descendants.
A personal and intimate account situated in a larger historical context, 80 YEARS LATER explores how different generations confront and cope with the ongoing legacy of family imprisonment, the ambiguity of trauma and loss that are an inherent part of their family's journey – and, ultimately, how they find their way to healing. Third generation Sansei Japanese Americans Kiyo and Robert, their fourth generation Yonsei children, and fifth generation Gosei grandchildren all struggle with issues of belonging. On one hand, Kiyo becomes a social justice advocate, and her daughter Jean serves Japanese American community causes just like her mother. On the other hand, Robert, a respected pediatrician in his community, and his daughter Jenny both assimilate through excelling in hegemonic standards of gender and race as quarterback and prom queen in their predominantly all-white schools. The Yonsei generation essentially inherit their parents’ ways of coping with the legacy of racial difference, while the Gosei generation are all mixed-race Japanese Americans who question if they can properly own their heritage and claim their history because of their uncertain racial recognizability. Refusing to turn away from their legacy, they learn not only their history but the wealth of not only their language and traditions and also their legacy of resistance.
This sensitive and intimate film provides a reflective portrait of internment, ultimately focusing its attention on how a family transforms trauma over time through the power of multigenerational connection.
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Citation
Main credits
Shimizu, Celine Parreñas (film director)
Shimizu, Celine Parreñas (film producer)
Shimizu, Celine Parreñas (screenwriter)
Miller, J. Reid (film producer)
Miller, J. Reid (screenwriter)
Shimizu, Dan (film producer)
Other credits
Cinematography, Dan Chein; editing, Eben Portnoy; music, Theo Gonzalves.
Distributor subjects
History; Asian American; Peace and Conflict Resolution; Sociology; Family Relations; Psychology; RacismKeywords
Executive Order 9066,mixed race,trauma,generational trauma,intergenerational trauma,internment,internment camps,World War II,WWII,Japanese Americans,Japanese-Americans,History,Asian American,Peace and Conflict Resolution,Sociology,Family Relations,Psychology,Racism ; "80 Years Later"; Women Make Movies
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- So we'd go right up
there, high as we could,
00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.729
and then slide down
into the lake.
00:00:22.105 --> 00:00:27.819
This is the place also where
when we went on vacations
00:00:27.902 --> 00:00:32.907
in the summer, we would almost
always find a box turtle.
00:00:33.616 --> 00:00:34.451
- A box turtle.
00:00:34.534 --> 00:00:35.118
- On the road.
00:00:35.201 --> 00:00:35.827
- Uh-huh.
00:00:35.994 --> 00:00:39.372
- So we’d generally have a
turtle and I'd come here,
00:00:39.456 --> 00:00:43.084
have it at home for a while
and then bring it out here.
00:00:43.168 --> 00:00:46.379
See, but it's actually
all concrete.
00:00:46.463 --> 00:00:47.297
- Oh.
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- My full name is
Tadashi Robert Shimizu,
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and the thing that always
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kinda bugged me as a young kid
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was that my brother,
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who was older than I am,
00:01:41.142 --> 00:01:44.521
his name was
Paul Hiroshi Shimizu.
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You know, the thing would
always say first name,
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and I felt like I had to
put down Tadashi,
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which labeled me right away,
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I mean, not that
no one would notice
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that I was Japanese
by looking at me.
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I mean, I think officially now
I'm Robert Tadashi Shimizu
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because I've signed so many
official documents that way.
00:02:11.756 --> 00:02:15.343
- I think it's cool to
have that like kind of,
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I guess, maybe American name
and kind of a Japanese name,
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'cause I don't really
have that.
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You know, there's like, my
mom's middle name is Shimizu,
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but I have like a very
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Scottish middle name.
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Like McLaughlin is like not
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quite Japanese, you would say.
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You know, me and my mom
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have talked a little bit about
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like more recently
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just 'cause, you know,
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we've just been talking
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about this kinda thing more.
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But like what if I had two
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middle names, you know?
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What if I had Shimizu
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and kind of McLaughlin?
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What if I had like both
links to that, you know?
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Matthew McLaughlin Shimizu,
that would be the full name.
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- You good, Mom?
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Good.
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Good.
00:04:01.741 --> 00:04:02.825
- Okay!
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I was born in San Francisco,
California
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and lived there until
I was five years old.
00:04:16.256 --> 00:04:20.385
Down the street was
my grandmother's house
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and they had a lovely
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Japanese garden
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and I could go sit with
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her and she would teach me
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how to pop peas.
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Up and down that street
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they were all pretty
much Japanese American.
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There was a Japanese
language school
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and I went to
pre-kindergarten there.
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We got a chance
to have a band,
00:05:00.925 --> 00:05:04.262
an orchestra of whistles.
00:05:04.345 --> 00:05:09.350
And I just love to be the
conductor of the band.
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I really feel grateful
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that I had that time
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because I feel comfortable
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being Japanese American.
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- I kept, you know, notes on
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things that I experienced in
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camp and things like that.
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And I was thinking about
Aunt Toshi and your father
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being sent to, you know.
00:06:07.700 --> 00:06:08.868
- And not knowing.
00:06:08.951 --> 00:06:09.911
- Right.
- And so forth,
00:06:09.994 --> 00:06:14.707
I made some comments because
I listened to some women
00:06:14.791 --> 00:06:19.087
at the latrine and
I was eavesdropping
00:06:19.170 --> 00:06:20.338
because they were talking
00:06:20.421 --> 00:06:24.550
about the horrible conditions
at Poston and, you know,
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and how things
were so bad there.
00:06:28.096 --> 00:06:32.433
And so I thought, oh, that is
so terrible that, you know?
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And everybody that part of
our family was at Poston.
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- Yeah.
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- This is the family home
in Shizuoka Prefecture
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and it still exists.
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I wanted to have you see
Grandma when she was young
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and in Japan, and this
is the way she looked.
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She is in a kimono,
and most of us
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have only seen her
in Western clothes here.
00:07:16.769 --> 00:07:19.897
- On December 7th, 1941,
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I was 16 and a senior
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at Sequoia Union High
School in Redwood City.
00:07:27.155 --> 00:07:28.239
We didn't know about what
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had happened at Pearl Harbor
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until we got home.
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Not long afterwards, we
learned of some of the elders
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of our Japanese American
community
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being taken away by the FBI.
00:07:45.131 --> 00:07:49.427
My uncle was one of them and
turned in a detention camp
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in Bismarck, North Dakota.
00:07:53.389 --> 00:07:58.144
We couldn't understand why
he should have been taken.
00:07:58.227 --> 00:08:02.565
He managed the nursery in
San Leandro, California,
00:08:02.648 --> 00:08:07.653
and he drove to the wholesale
flower market in San Francisco
00:08:07.737 --> 00:08:10.239
each day to sell roses.
00:08:11.365 --> 00:08:15.328
He was married
with two little boys.
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- I have zero memory of
that, of what happened.
00:08:23.544 --> 00:08:26.797
But I do remember, you know,
00:08:26.881 --> 00:08:32.470
us waiting to see him come
back from the FBI camp.
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- He left Aunt Toshi
and the two little boys,
00:08:39.018 --> 00:08:42.396
and we didn't know
where he was.
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- That was a very scary
time for our family.
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- Yeah.
00:08:46.400 --> 00:08:48.694
- Not knowing how he
was being treated there
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or if he would ever
be released.
00:08:52.949 --> 00:08:55.785
- He was very bitter about it.
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He definitely pledged never
to come back to California.
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He went there and
the rest of us,
00:09:07.255 --> 00:09:11.592
women and children, all
went to the regular camps,
00:09:11.676 --> 00:09:13.010
if you wanna call it that.
00:09:19.267 --> 00:09:24.063
Things that I remember
from camp were, you know,
00:09:24.146 --> 00:09:28.025
basically little vignettes,
I think, you know,
00:09:28.109 --> 00:09:31.028
I mean just like
stealing cucumbers,
00:09:31.112 --> 00:09:35.616
and I can almost picture
having a bottle of soy sauce
00:09:35.866 --> 00:09:40.329
in my hand and hiding among
the rose and pouring it
00:09:40.413 --> 00:09:43.708
on the raw cucumber
and eating it.
00:09:45.876 --> 00:09:50.923
And I remember being
caught in a rainstorm
00:09:51.007 --> 00:09:53.718
and being carried
by older people.
00:09:53.801 --> 00:09:55.136
I remember those kinda things,
00:09:55.219 --> 00:09:59.890
but I think virtually, all
of it is out of context,
00:09:59.974 --> 00:10:02.143
just something
out of the blue.
00:10:16.490 --> 00:10:20.411
- It was a stall, you know,
where horses are kept.
00:10:20.494 --> 00:10:25.458
There were iron cots,
nothing on it.
00:10:27.251 --> 00:10:32.757
My mother was so exhausted
and she just sat there.
00:10:36.052 --> 00:10:40.890
The thing is my dad
is a kind of dad
00:10:40.973 --> 00:10:47.438
who's decided to sleep in
the back part of the stall,
00:10:47.521 --> 00:10:53.694
which was the most smelly,
and...
00:10:53.778 --> 00:10:59.784
He wanted the front
part to be left for us.
00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:13.047
- My mother was an unusual
person, I would say.
00:11:13.130 --> 00:11:15.508
I'm sure she took this
just the way she looked
00:11:15.591 --> 00:11:16.967
at the whole thing.
00:11:17.051 --> 00:11:18.719
She just saw it as, well,
00:11:18.803 --> 00:11:20.888
stuff happens.
00:11:20.971 --> 00:11:24.684
Stuff happens and you
just make the best of it
00:11:24.767 --> 00:11:28.104
And I think that's probably
how she looked at it
00:11:28.187 --> 00:11:31.565
and how she presented it
to us.
00:11:33.734 --> 00:11:37.321
It probably didn't hit us
as hard as some, you know,
00:11:37.738 --> 00:11:42.451
because she was always
kind of the mind that, oh,
00:11:42.535 --> 00:11:43.744
it wasn't that bad.
00:11:43.828 --> 00:11:47.748
You know, there's a
kind of a famous saying:
00:11:47.832 --> 00:11:49.500
shikata ga nai
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.421
Things happen,
you do the best you can.
00:11:53.504 --> 00:11:59.260
And she never expressed a
lot of bitterness or anger.
00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:15.901
- All that went through my
mind over and over again
00:12:15.985 --> 00:12:18.237
was a line from "Macbeth,"
00:12:18.696 --> 00:12:21.949
"Ay, deep in the ditch, he bides.
00:12:22.032 --> 00:12:25.953
Ay, deep in the ditch, he bides."
00:12:26.036 --> 00:12:31.625
And years later I
discovered what that meant.
00:12:31.709 --> 00:12:39.759
That was a betrayal
of everything.
00:12:39.842 --> 00:12:48.392
Everything that I ever trusted
or believed in was betrayed.
00:12:48.476 --> 00:12:58.360
I felt so much rage that I
could not express out loud
00:12:58.444 --> 00:13:01.947
because it was not safe.
00:14:07.388 --> 00:14:11.308
When we were released
from Tanforan Racetrack,
00:14:11.392 --> 00:14:14.895
this is the first church
that I came to.
00:14:20.317 --> 00:14:22.653
We could come here
00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:27.700
and be in the front seats
and vote.
00:14:27.783 --> 00:14:31.579
They didn't want us
to start a Japan town,
00:14:31.662 --> 00:14:36.542
but they could not prevent
us from coming to church.
00:14:39.753 --> 00:14:42.089
- As people were allowed
to leave camp,
00:14:42.172 --> 00:14:45.342
they were instructed not
to congregate in public.
00:14:46.218 --> 00:14:49.430
The West Coast was still
closed to Japanese Americans,
00:14:49.513 --> 00:14:51.515
so they weren't allowed
to go there.
00:14:51.599 --> 00:14:56.478
But Chicago being in the
center of the country
00:14:56.562 --> 00:14:58.188
away from the coast,
00:14:58.272 --> 00:15:01.984
it was an acceptable
place for people to come.
00:15:03.235 --> 00:15:08.741
- The people coming out of
the camps came to this church
00:15:09.033 --> 00:15:13.996
because they knew that
there would be help here.
00:15:16.081 --> 00:15:19.001
- Both my parents were so
active in social justice.
00:15:19.501 --> 00:15:21.086
My father even went
00:15:21.170 --> 00:15:23.380
to Montgomery
00:15:23.464 --> 00:15:24.673
to greet the marchers
00:15:24.757 --> 00:15:25.966
from Selma.
00:15:26.050 --> 00:15:28.469
- We were involved in a lot of
00:15:28.552 --> 00:15:31.221
fair housing kinds of things,
00:15:32.014 --> 00:15:34.642
integrating this community,
00:15:34.725 --> 00:15:39.438
just because we were
denied access.
00:15:39.521 --> 00:15:40.606
- They continued the work
00:15:40.689 --> 00:15:43.275
because it wasn't just
being a minister, right?
00:15:43.359 --> 00:15:46.946
It was also integrating
a community.
00:16:43.669 --> 00:16:46.005
- Have you been here before?
00:16:47.381 --> 00:16:48.799
- The first thing they had
00:16:50.050 --> 00:16:55.973
was this completely worn
down, torn up storefront.
00:16:56.056 --> 00:16:59.476
There was just
some random place,
00:16:59.560 --> 00:17:03.313
looked like it had
no occupants for years.
00:17:03.397 --> 00:17:08.402
And they just set up their
beans sprout tubs there,
00:17:09.278 --> 00:17:11.447
and they made
beans sprouts and tofu.
00:17:12.656 --> 00:17:17.411
And, you know, somehow
with as little, you know,
00:17:17.494 --> 00:17:21.623
opportunity to sell, it seemed
to me they did well enough
00:17:21.707 --> 00:17:23.959
and, of course,
were frugal and all that,
00:17:24.043 --> 00:17:28.213
and they bought this property
and built this building.
00:17:28.297 --> 00:17:29.673
- So they owned the land.
00:17:29.757 --> 00:17:30.591
- Yes.
- And they built the building.
00:17:30.674 --> 00:17:32.760
- They built the property.
00:17:32.843 --> 00:17:39.183
It's the life work of, and how
Grandpa picked up the pieces
00:17:40.059 --> 00:17:44.772
of the internment and
of being put into prison
00:17:44.855 --> 00:17:48.192
and looked upon as an enemy
of the state and all this.
00:17:48.984 --> 00:17:53.655
And that he was able to
still have a successful life
00:17:53.739 --> 00:17:56.909
and, you know, be content
with his life and be happy
00:17:56.992 --> 00:18:02.164
that he put his two sons
through college, you know?
00:18:03.373 --> 00:18:08.796
- And I think he was more
than happy with that, yeah.
00:18:09.797 --> 00:18:13.008
I think Grandma was just
happy that we were happy.
00:18:13.092 --> 00:18:15.010
- Yeah.
00:18:15.094 --> 00:18:16.762
- So.
00:18:17.054 --> 00:18:18.138
- After, you know,
00:18:18.222 --> 00:18:21.558
being in the, you know,
prison camps
00:18:21.642 --> 00:18:23.727
and I mean when I think
about your dad,
00:18:23.811 --> 00:18:26.647
I think about him coming over
here when he was so young
00:18:26.730 --> 00:18:30.609
and starting his life
over here in California
00:18:30.692 --> 00:18:34.154
and, you know, Grandma having
been kind of like living here
00:18:34.238 --> 00:18:36.615
and then both of them
losing everything
00:18:36.698 --> 00:18:39.201
and having to start again.
00:18:39.284 --> 00:18:40.702
- Yeah, starting over
a couple times.
00:18:40.786 --> 00:18:41.870
- Yeah, it's easy to just say
00:18:41.954 --> 00:18:43.872
it's like American dream
kinda thing.
00:18:43.956 --> 00:18:45.582
But that was not
where they started,
00:18:45.666 --> 00:18:47.000
they didn’t start...
00:18:47.084 --> 00:18:49.795
They started with like
an American nightmare
00:18:49.878 --> 00:18:53.382
and then tried to create
something for like you, Dad,
00:18:53.465 --> 00:18:54.800
and Uncle Paul.
00:18:56.218 --> 00:18:58.637
And it seems like from when
you talk about Grandpa,
00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:02.266
that there is like still this,
you know,
00:19:02.349 --> 00:19:06.145
bitterness even with
creating a new life.
00:19:06.854 --> 00:19:10.566
(birds tweeting)
00:19:24.621 --> 00:19:26.206
- And then you just squish
00:19:26.290 --> 00:19:27.916
it out from the center
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.043
to meet the edges.
00:19:35.757 --> 00:19:37.551
I think that's all you need,
right?
00:19:37.634 --> 00:19:38.468
- Yeah.
00:19:49.479 --> 00:19:50.230
- All right.
00:19:50.314 --> 00:19:51.106
- Yep.
00:19:51.190 --> 00:19:52.399
- Sometimes, the first part
00:19:52.482 --> 00:19:55.444
of a conversation in
Cincinnati would be,
00:19:55.527 --> 00:19:56.820
“Oh, where are you from?”
00:19:56.904 --> 00:19:57.988
- Where are you really from?
00:19:58.071 --> 00:19:59.907
- Yeah. Where are you from?
00:19:59.990 --> 00:20:03.243
And, you know, and if you
were a wise ass like I was,
00:20:03.327 --> 00:20:07.247
sometimes, I would say,
"I'm from Price Hill,
00:20:07.331 --> 00:20:08.415
where are you from?"
00:20:09.625 --> 00:20:13.795
And then I remember one person
getting really angry at me
00:20:13.879 --> 00:20:16.548
and saying "I was trying
to be liberal
00:20:16.632 --> 00:20:19.635
and you made fun of me."
00:20:21.220 --> 00:20:23.931
We were pretty fine with
everything until I think
00:20:24.014 --> 00:20:30.771
the most devastating for us
was you and Susie not being
00:20:30.854 --> 00:20:36.818
accepted by the sorority
that Mom had belonged to.
00:20:36.902 --> 00:20:39.196
It's kinda like you're
cruising along,
00:20:40.239 --> 00:20:44.701
feeling comfortable with life
and then you find that out.
00:20:44.785 --> 00:20:46.286
- So Matthew and Dan,
00:20:46.370 --> 00:20:47.537
I don't know if you guys
are familiar,
00:20:47.621 --> 00:20:50.415
Grandma was in a sorority
called Kappa Kappa Gamma,
00:20:50.499 --> 00:20:52.042
which is a very
popular sorority.
00:20:52.125 --> 00:20:54.670
Since I'm her daughter,
I would be called a legacy
00:20:54.753 --> 00:20:56.672
and Auntie Susie was the same.
00:20:56.755 --> 00:20:59.758
And essentially, as a
legacy to the sorority,
00:20:59.841 --> 00:21:03.470
you pretty much get
asked back all the time
00:21:03.553 --> 00:21:06.098
and usually get
an invitation to join.
00:21:06.181 --> 00:21:07.182
Within one or two days,
00:21:07.266 --> 00:21:10.727
she and I both were like
outright rejected by Kappa,
00:21:10.811 --> 00:21:12.854
my mom's sorority.
00:21:12.938 --> 00:21:13.689
Dan, Susie and I each had
00:21:13.772 --> 00:21:18.068
kind our own different
incidences of feeling,
00:21:18.151 --> 00:21:22.864
you know, or being, you
know, the victims of racism
00:21:22.948 --> 00:21:24.950
and feeling different.
00:21:25.033 --> 00:21:26.535
But through high school,
not really.
00:21:26.618 --> 00:21:28.996
And I was similar to
Grandpa, I played sports,
00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.039
I did student body things,
00:21:31.123 --> 00:21:33.041
I had a lot of different
diverse friends.
00:21:33.125 --> 00:21:37.129
And I think for me, I felt...
00:21:37.796 --> 00:21:39.089
I just didn't understand,
00:21:39.172 --> 00:21:40.299
but it was pretty obvious
00:21:40.299 --> 00:21:41.383
that the reason
00:21:41.466 --> 00:21:43.468
because I was half Japanese.
00:21:43.552 --> 00:21:46.596
Nobody in these places
looked like me.
00:21:48.348 --> 00:21:53.729
And, you know, and it
was just, yeah, shocking.
00:21:53.812 --> 00:21:55.897
- I don't think it was
even how you looked,
00:21:55.981 --> 00:21:57.607
it was your name.
00:21:57.691 --> 00:21:59.359
- Correct.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:21:59.443 --> 00:22:04.281
Like you were mad, Mom was
mad that she was also like,
00:22:04.364 --> 00:22:06.742
I mean sounds kind of
melodramatic for a sorority,
00:22:06.825 --> 00:22:08.327
but she kinda felt betrayed,
right?
00:22:08.410 --> 00:22:10.203
This is a place where
she had created
00:22:10.287 --> 00:22:13.457
some really good friendships
and had done a lot for them.
00:22:13.540 --> 00:22:16.376
And then now her two daughters
00:22:16.460 --> 00:22:19.838
were pretty much
rejected outright.
00:22:19.921 --> 00:22:20.756
- Yeah.
00:22:22.090 --> 00:22:24.676
And the whole thing was
that you ended up being
00:22:25.927 --> 00:22:28.013
not just a member
of another sorority,
00:22:28.096 --> 00:22:30.265
you were the president of
another sorority.
00:22:31.558 --> 00:22:33.685
And it's just like
00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:36.229
how do they justify
what they did?
00:23:06.635 --> 00:23:12.140
- You know, with any person
who's a survivor of trauma,
00:23:12.224 --> 00:23:16.061
it's a feeling of not
wanting that trauma
00:23:16.144 --> 00:23:20.232
to enter into their current
life, wanting to move on.
00:23:22.234 --> 00:23:27.739
And the government, I think,
was also intent on
00:23:29.282 --> 00:23:31.952
Japanese Americans moving on.
00:23:32.619 --> 00:23:37.082
When we moved to Northbrook,
it was such a drastic change
00:23:37.165 --> 00:23:41.962
going from this very
comfortable, multicultural
00:23:42.045 --> 00:23:45.132
environment, and I was
the only person of color
00:23:45.215 --> 00:23:47.300
in my entire
junior high school.
00:23:53.557 --> 00:23:57.936
And I felt, even though we
never openly talked about it,
00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:01.356
I knew that our family
was kind of under siege
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.984
in this primarily
white neighborhood.
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:09.281
I wonder if that is one of
the negative inheritances
00:24:09.364 --> 00:24:15.036
of them going through
the evacuation, you know,
00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:17.122
'cause people didn't
talk about it.
00:24:17.205 --> 00:24:20.750
And I wonder if that led to,
00:24:20.834 --> 00:24:26.590
we just don't talk about
difficult things.
00:24:26.673 --> 00:24:28.091
You know, “Gaman”
00:24:28.175 --> 00:24:33.180
like you endure and you get
through it, you figure it out.
00:24:33.263 --> 00:24:36.641
And then the other phrase is
Shikata Ganai,
00:24:36.725 --> 00:24:38.810
“It can't be helped.”
00:24:38.894 --> 00:24:44.566
So there could be a feeling
of... we are sort of...
00:24:47.444 --> 00:24:50.864
out of control of some
of the impacts in our lives
00:24:50.947 --> 00:24:55.702
and we have to just bear it
and move on.
00:24:55.785 --> 00:24:59.873
And that doesn't really work
00:24:59.956 --> 00:25:03.043
because there had to
have been a lot of anger
00:25:03.126 --> 00:25:08.131
that was just forced down in
order to be able to move on.
00:25:08.715 --> 00:25:12.886
So I think that that could
really have a negative effect
00:25:12.969 --> 00:25:14.679
on younger generations.
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.528
- Well, I think it was that
we were getting to the point
00:25:29.611 --> 00:25:33.490
in history class where we were
coming to World War II,
00:25:33.573 --> 00:25:34.574
and I approached my teacher
00:25:34.658 --> 00:25:35.659
and said, "Hey, like
00:25:35.742 --> 00:25:37.035
my grandmother
00:25:37.035 --> 00:25:38.078
went through this,
00:25:38.161 --> 00:25:39.538
should we see if she'd be
00:25:39.621 --> 00:25:41.289
willing to talk to the class
00:25:41.373 --> 00:25:42.916
so the students
to know that hey,
00:25:42.999 --> 00:25:44.543
these are things that
have happened, you know?
00:25:44.626 --> 00:25:46.878
Here's just somebody who
can tell you about that for,
00:25:46.962 --> 00:25:49.548
you know, what it was like,
you know,
00:25:49.631 --> 00:25:52.634
in one of the dark times
of our country's history
00:25:52.717 --> 00:25:55.428
of what kind of things
have happened here."
00:25:55.512 --> 00:26:02.102
- One of the things I really
valued about you is that
00:26:02.185 --> 00:26:11.278
you admired what the Japanese
American soldiers went through.
00:26:11.361 --> 00:26:14.030
You really wanted to follow
00:26:14.114 --> 00:26:16.866
in their footsteps.
00:26:16.950 --> 00:26:19.786
- The service of the 442nd
definitely was a factor
00:26:19.869 --> 00:26:21.580
in me joining the army myself.
00:26:22.914 --> 00:26:24.708
I don't know if it was naive
or just wishful thinking,
00:26:24.791 --> 00:26:27.627
but I know my hope was that
maybe I could least help to,
00:26:27.711 --> 00:26:29.796
in some way, maybe
protect the legacy
00:26:29.879 --> 00:26:31.423
that they had left behind.
00:26:31.506 --> 00:26:33.466
I wanted to show
that hey, we're still here,
00:26:33.550 --> 00:26:36.553
we're still serving,
you know, we're still loyal.
00:26:40.098 --> 00:26:42.934
It might have been Jean that
sent me a newspaper article
00:26:43.018 --> 00:26:46.313
about how Japanese
Americans were like trying
00:26:46.396 --> 00:26:49.274
to give support for the
Muslim American community
00:26:49.357 --> 00:26:52.068
'cause they'd been through
the internment,
00:26:52.152 --> 00:26:54.070
and, you know, trying to
talk about how
00:26:54.154 --> 00:26:55.447
this shouldn't happen again.
00:26:55.530 --> 00:26:58.241
I even put up those
articles in my wall locker.
00:26:58.325 --> 00:27:00.827
I don't know if I made
much of an impact,
00:27:00.910 --> 00:27:03.288
but I know I tried to, you know,
00:27:03.371 --> 00:27:04.497
voice some dissenting opinion.
00:27:04.581 --> 00:27:06.875
Say "Hey, you know,
just 'cause, you know,
00:27:06.958 --> 00:27:09.044
the people we're fighting
maybe from one place,
00:27:09.127 --> 00:27:12.130
it doesn't mean all people
from there are the same."
00:27:12.589 --> 00:27:15.550
As a reminder of where
I'd come from,
00:27:15.634 --> 00:27:17.385
and, you know, that the,
you know,
00:27:17.469 --> 00:27:19.846
the cultural legacy that,
at the time,
00:27:19.929 --> 00:27:23.475
I felt like that had been
left behind for me to inherit.
00:27:29.814 --> 00:27:32.859
- Well, this is where
we lived, on this side.
00:27:32.942 --> 00:27:33.735
- On the left?
00:27:33.818 --> 00:27:34.569
- On the left.
00:27:34.653 --> 00:27:36.488
Yamaguchi's on the right.
00:27:38.031 --> 00:27:39.616
These steps right here.
00:27:39.699 --> 00:27:40.992
- Yeah.
00:27:41.076 --> 00:27:44.746
- This is where I used
to play ball. (chuckles)
00:27:47.332 --> 00:27:49.459
- Did it feel big when you
were younger I guess, or?
00:27:49.542 --> 00:27:51.461
- Yeah, it felt enormous.
00:27:51.544 --> 00:27:52.379
- Yeah.
00:27:52.462 --> 00:27:53.922
(chuckling)
00:27:54.798 --> 00:27:57.884
My brother and I used
to wrestle all the time
00:27:57.967 --> 00:28:00.553
and I was looking at it
one day and I thought,
00:28:01.554 --> 00:28:03.223
how the hell did we wrestle-
00:28:03.306 --> 00:28:05.225
- Yeah, in such a small place.
00:28:05.308 --> 00:28:06.685
- It's a small place.
00:28:06.935 --> 00:28:07.769
- Wow.
00:28:12.023 --> 00:28:17.028
- Yeah. So my dad put this up.
00:28:17.737 --> 00:28:18.571
- Oh, yeah?
00:28:19.656 --> 00:28:24.869
And uh, this whole area
over here,
00:28:24.953 --> 00:28:29.916
they had azaleas and
rhododendrons on that ridge.
00:28:30.792 --> 00:28:34.295
They were very happy,
very content.
00:28:34.462 --> 00:28:36.005
- Yeah.
- To sit here
00:28:36.005 --> 00:28:38.967
listening to the radio,
the Reds game.
- Reds game.
00:28:39.050 --> 00:28:43.430
- And he'd say, "It doesn't
get any better than this."
00:28:43.513 --> 00:28:45.557
And all I could think of was,
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:48.852
I hope the hell it does.
00:28:49.811 --> 00:28:53.356
I mean there are times
I think as I got older,
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.359
closer to 10 or 12, I
would think, you know,
00:28:56.443 --> 00:28:58.069
“Why do I have to
look like this?
00:28:58.153 --> 00:28:59.988
Why do I have to
look different?
00:29:00.071 --> 00:29:04.033
You know, why
am I identifiable
00:29:04.117 --> 00:29:06.286
to everyone walking
down the street
00:29:06.369 --> 00:29:09.372
that, "You are different
than the rest of us.
00:29:09.456 --> 00:29:11.875
Or you're not
as good as we are?”
00:29:16.129 --> 00:29:19.632
But I think, you know, the
overall treatment of myself,
00:29:19.716 --> 00:29:22.719
my brother, we were
pretty much treated
00:29:22.844 --> 00:29:25.930
or taken on face value.
00:29:27.849 --> 00:29:45.992
(crowd chattering)
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.499
(crowd cheering)
00:29:53.917 --> 00:29:58.171
- We were good at things,
we were good in school,
00:29:58.254 --> 00:30:00.882
and I think that's
how they took us.
00:30:20.318 --> 00:30:21.986
- Oh my gosh,
check out this one.
00:30:23.404 --> 00:30:24.948
- The matrix.
00:30:31.329 --> 00:30:33.206
(chuckling)
00:30:33.289 --> 00:30:35.083
Yeah, it's kinda...
00:30:37.252 --> 00:30:41.756
Makes you look, like
“Is that really me?”
00:30:41.840 --> 00:30:43.508
- Oh yeah.
00:30:43.591 --> 00:30:46.845
- My experience is like
almost the exact contrast
00:30:46.928 --> 00:30:48.137
to what your experience was.
00:30:48.221 --> 00:30:51.432
Like people tell me you're
not Japanese enough.
00:30:51.516 --> 00:30:53.893
I say I'm Japanese and
they'll be like, "How much?"
00:30:53.977 --> 00:30:56.896
Like, you know, like
I'll be like, "Oh yeah,
00:30:56.980 --> 00:31:00.525
my grandpa's Japanese and
my mom is half Japanese,
00:31:00.608 --> 00:31:03.194
so I guess I'm
a quarter Japanese."
00:31:03.278 --> 00:31:04.028
- Quapa.
00:31:04.112 --> 00:31:06.030
- Yeah, exactly. Quapa.
00:31:06.114 --> 00:31:09.742
And then they'll say,
"You know, well, 25%,
00:31:09.826 --> 00:31:11.202
I don't know if that's enough.
00:31:11.286 --> 00:31:12.829
What are you doing here,
you know?
00:31:12.912 --> 00:31:16.416
You're only half Japanese.
You don't look Japanese."
00:31:16.499 --> 00:31:18.793
It's almost like an exact
opposite experience
00:31:18.877 --> 00:31:20.169
but sometimes,
I look in the mirror
00:31:20.253 --> 00:31:23.423
and wish I was more Japanese,
or I looked more Japanese.
00:32:23.733 --> 00:32:27.070
So we're here at the Japanese
American Service Committee.
00:32:27.153 --> 00:32:31.658
This center was established
many years ago
00:32:31.741 --> 00:32:33.826
during the
resettlement period.
00:32:33.910 --> 00:32:36.412
As a social worker
for many years,
00:32:36.496 --> 00:32:40.708
I had studied
the impact of trauma,
00:32:40.792 --> 00:32:44.712
different types of trauma,
on individuals and families.
00:32:44.796 --> 00:32:48.049
And it made me think
about the trauma
00:32:48.132 --> 00:32:50.843
of the forced evacuation.
00:32:50.927 --> 00:32:55.306
This project with the mural
really came out of that
00:32:55.390 --> 00:32:57.183
and was one of the highlights.
00:33:03.815 --> 00:33:06.442
The shame and denial,
00:33:06.526 --> 00:33:08.987
the expectation that
we would assimilate,
00:33:09.070 --> 00:33:12.657
even though that's
impossible in this country
00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:16.327
to a certain extent,
and forget.
00:33:24.043 --> 00:33:26.379
Also typically,
as a mother-daughter...
00:33:27.672 --> 00:33:31.134
there was a lot of tension
at a certain point.
00:33:31.217 --> 00:33:36.848
But what I say is it took
both of us working on it.
00:33:36.931 --> 00:33:39.809
Like we didn't really
talk about feelings.
00:33:41.352 --> 00:33:47.608
And then, yeah,
we were able to also,
00:33:50.862 --> 00:33:53.364
I was able to forgive,
00:33:54.282 --> 00:33:56.993
and forgiving in the
sense of letting go
00:33:57.577 --> 00:34:00.079
and letting the love come out.
00:34:03.458 --> 00:34:06.753
- Well, you know,
the thing is that
00:34:06.836 --> 00:34:09.380
in the Japanese language,
00:34:09.464 --> 00:34:12.800
and I don't know
a whole lot about it,
00:34:12.884 --> 00:34:19.390
but there is a phrase,
00:34:19.474 --> 00:34:23.561
Ai Shiteru
00:34:23.644 --> 00:34:28.649
but I've never heard
anybody say that to anyone,
00:34:29.901 --> 00:34:32.904
not to say, “I love you.”
00:34:35.531 --> 00:34:40.995
It was really important
later on in life to realize
00:34:41.662 --> 00:34:48.628
that actually, my children,
growing up in this culture
00:34:48.711 --> 00:34:50.922
and in this generation,
00:34:51.005 --> 00:34:57.762
needed to hear me say,
"I love you”
00:34:57.845 --> 00:35:00.848
“I love you."
00:35:01.057 --> 00:35:09.899
And that's also something
that my son told me
00:35:10.983 --> 00:35:13.653
when he was dying.
00:35:13.736 --> 00:35:22.036
"Mom, I forgive you,"
he said to me.
00:35:23.162 --> 00:35:29.377
He says, "You know, I really
learned to say I love you
00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:36.676
and I wanted to hear people...
You tell me you love me."
00:35:36.759 --> 00:35:40.263
“So I have made,” my son says,
00:35:40.346 --> 00:35:46.936
"I have made every effort
to tell my kids ‘I love you,’
00:35:47.019 --> 00:35:51.482
so that they would know
that from me."
00:35:51.816 --> 00:35:59.282
And that was a huge lesson
for me, huge lesson for me.
00:36:14.255 --> 00:36:19.927
- This is the famous safe
that Grandpa put in.
00:36:20.803 --> 00:36:21.679
- Oh, he installed it?
00:36:21.762 --> 00:36:22.638
- Yeah, he installed it.
00:36:22.722 --> 00:36:27.685
He put this in and
put it in concrete
00:36:27.768 --> 00:36:29.270
so no one would steal it.
00:36:30.479 --> 00:36:34.358
And I think, talking to
the present owner,
00:36:34.442 --> 00:36:37.153
they tried to get it out
and could not get it out.
00:36:37.236 --> 00:36:38.529
- Yeah. You could tell.
00:36:38.613 --> 00:36:40.907
(chuckling)
00:36:41.449 --> 00:36:44.869
- The only other event they
had here was to make mochi.
00:36:44.952 --> 00:36:48.206
They would get a bunch
of guys to come down
00:36:48.915 --> 00:36:50.249
and pound the mochi.
00:36:50.333 --> 00:36:52.460
- Yeah.
- So they'd have it
for New Year's.
00:36:52.543 --> 00:36:54.795
- It gives me courage
to know that they had
00:36:54.879 --> 00:36:57.465
like a certain pride
within themselves.
00:36:57.548 --> 00:37:01.302
- I mean it feels like the
opposite of assimilation
00:37:01.385 --> 00:37:04.138
that they started
a Japanese food store.
00:37:04.222 --> 00:37:07.475
You and I both were like
athletic and did, you know,
00:37:07.558 --> 00:37:11.020
like student body stuff
and engaging in kind of like
00:37:11.103 --> 00:37:13.522
our lives in this very kinda
traditional American way
00:37:13.606 --> 00:37:16.150
versus like being, you
know, Japanese American,
00:37:16.234 --> 00:37:17.944
Japanese American half.
00:37:18.027 --> 00:37:20.655
And I was thinking about,
you know,
00:37:20.738 --> 00:37:24.533
kind of this transference,
you know, like from you
to me, to Matthew.
00:37:24.617 --> 00:37:27.203
Even still now, like even
through Matthew and Daniel
00:37:27.286 --> 00:37:29.622
finding my way as
they’ve been more...
00:37:29.705 --> 00:37:31.666
I mean they both
speak Japanese
00:37:31.749 --> 00:37:33.876
and I don't speak
any Japanese.
00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:35.753
It's kind of just, you know-
00:37:35.836 --> 00:37:36.921
- Me neither.
00:37:37.004 --> 00:37:38.172
- Yeah, and you neither,
like neither of us.
00:37:38.256 --> 00:37:40.424
Actually, neither of
us speak any Japanese.
00:37:40.508 --> 00:37:41.759
It's really just
you and Daniel.
00:37:41.842 --> 00:37:44.929
- Well, I mean, I think the
inspiration for that for me,
00:37:45.012 --> 00:37:47.556
like to learn Japanese
or to like learn
00:37:47.640 --> 00:37:50.059
about that kind of thing
really came from
00:37:50.142 --> 00:37:54.397
like Kiyo, you know,
at the family reunion.
00:37:54.730 --> 00:37:55.982
- You know, telling us like,
00:37:56.065 --> 00:37:57.733
"Engage with it
any way you can.
00:37:57.817 --> 00:38:01.445
It doesn't have to be grand
or, you know, have to like
00:38:01.529 --> 00:38:05.283
have, you know, something
really super meaningful to it.
00:38:05.366 --> 00:38:09.453
It's more about like engaging
with the story, you know?"
00:39:03.215 --> 00:39:13.934
(chattering indistinctly)
00:39:15.144 --> 00:39:16.437
- Make sure the-
00:39:16.520 --> 00:39:16.896
- Yeah.
00:39:16.979 --> 00:39:17.730
- Don't roll back.
00:39:17.813 --> 00:39:20.608
- I'm gonna get you as close
as I can to the warmth.
00:39:22.443 --> 00:39:25.154
Feeling responsible for people
and taking care of people,
00:39:25.237 --> 00:39:26.530
it was something that
I've been thinking about
00:39:26.614 --> 00:39:30.618
this whole time is just always
how I've always noticed,
00:39:30.701 --> 00:39:33.496
definitely noticed, how
grandma always met everybody,
00:39:33.579 --> 00:39:37.083
whether they're four years
old or they feel like
00:39:37.166 --> 00:39:38.042
they're the black sheep
00:39:38.125 --> 00:39:40.252
and whether they're feel
like the overachiever
00:39:40.336 --> 00:39:44.048
that she meets everybody
with compassion
00:39:44.131 --> 00:39:46.300
and treats everybody the same.
00:39:46.384 --> 00:39:50.596
And I think that was, it's
always great to, you know,
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:55.684
really treat everybody
well and deserving of care.
00:39:56.894 --> 00:40:00.189
Kind of thinking about just
also what she's gone through
00:40:00.272 --> 00:40:01.524
to still have that kindness
00:40:01.607 --> 00:40:05.945
and meeting any hardship
with grace.
00:40:06.028 --> 00:40:07.738
As a high school teacher,
00:40:07.822 --> 00:40:10.032
I mean that's how I try to
meet my students every day
00:40:10.116 --> 00:40:11.325
and something I'm
always thinking about.
00:40:11.409 --> 00:40:15.079
How can I meet our kids
and make connections
00:40:15.162 --> 00:40:17.331
and treat them with
compassion every day.
00:40:21.127 --> 00:40:28.634
- It's scary times
as far as being Asian.
00:40:28.717 --> 00:40:30.886
And, you know, I thought
there was a point where
00:40:30.970 --> 00:40:33.139
we were past that, but...
00:40:33.222 --> 00:40:35.808
You know, I'm
afraid for Mom and Jean.
00:40:37.351 --> 00:40:39.854
You know, they don't go out
too much, but, you know,
00:40:39.937 --> 00:40:42.982
I mean, just, it can happen
just walking down the street.
00:40:43.941 --> 00:40:47.862
And that's not the way
it should be, you know?
00:40:47.945 --> 00:40:51.198
But unfortunately,
that's the way it is.
00:40:54.743 --> 00:40:55.494
- A lot of my peers,
00:40:55.578 --> 00:40:58.080
if I tell 'em my grandma was
put into an internment camp,
00:40:58.164 --> 00:40:59.290
they kind of just go,
"Oh wow."
00:40:59.373 --> 00:41:01.292
They may have read it
in a history textbook
00:41:01.375 --> 00:41:04.003
a couple years ago, but,
you know, it's a part of you
00:41:04.086 --> 00:41:05.838
that you're like,
"Damn," that like...
00:41:06.964 --> 00:41:09.467
Just because of the way
someone looked
00:41:09.550 --> 00:41:12.094
or where they came from...
00:41:12.178 --> 00:41:14.221
I don't appear too Asian
on the outside, so
00:41:14.305 --> 00:41:17.725
it's something that I really
carry with me on the inside.
00:41:24.648 --> 00:41:28.110
We know Grandma's experience,
and I'm kind of realizing
00:41:28.194 --> 00:41:31.280
that not everybody knows
that experience,
00:41:31.363 --> 00:41:32.406
that it even happened.
00:41:34.450 --> 00:41:39.413
- I mean, I love being able
to take care of my mom.
00:41:40.998 --> 00:41:45.294
And I love helping you
tell your story,
00:41:47.838 --> 00:41:50.508
because I know not too
many people can tell it
00:41:50.591 --> 00:41:55.471
the way you do, because you've
really thought about it
00:41:56.555 --> 00:41:59.308
and you've connected with
your feelings about it.
00:42:00.726 --> 00:42:03.771
I feel like I'm sort
of a caretaker
00:42:04.688 --> 00:42:07.274
of the story in my mother.
00:42:20.913 --> 00:42:24.083
- Is it kind of the same, like
the same trees and the same-?
00:42:24.166 --> 00:42:26.710
- Yeah, this looks all
the same to me.
00:42:30.256 --> 00:42:33.050
You know I wanna be
responsible for like carrying
00:42:33.133 --> 00:42:35.386
on like kind of
intergenerational experience.
00:42:35.469 --> 00:42:38.514
I wanna be able to like
carry what my mom carried
00:42:38.597 --> 00:42:41.475
and my grandpa,
you know, carried.
00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:44.812
Like I wanna be that legacy,
00:42:44.895 --> 00:42:46.772
I wanna pass on that torch
00:42:46.855 --> 00:42:49.400
and I wanna tell, you know,
my children
00:42:49.483 --> 00:42:51.485
that they're Japanese.
00:42:51.569 --> 00:42:54.405
Even though they're gonna be,
you know,
00:42:54.488 --> 00:42:56.615
maybe only an eighth Japanese.
00:42:58.659 --> 00:43:02.496
(birds tweeting)
00:43:05.332 --> 00:43:12.965
- Well, I'd have to say
that it makes me feel good.
00:43:13.549 --> 00:43:17.261
It makes me wanna be you.
00:43:18.304 --> 00:43:25.853
And in another sense,
it's surprising that he...
00:43:25.936 --> 00:43:31.150
I think he has more of a sense
of it than I've ever had.
00:43:32.109 --> 00:43:34.570
I think that there's
always been a part of me that,
00:43:34.653 --> 00:43:39.783
that's hiding my Japanese...
00:43:42.202 --> 00:43:44.538
my Japanese-ness or culture
00:43:44.622 --> 00:43:46.373
or whatever you wanna call it.
00:43:46.457 --> 00:43:51.795
And I think that was a
brutality of my childhood
00:43:51.879 --> 00:43:58.636
that I was made to feel
ashamed of who I was.
00:44:02.765 --> 00:44:07.686
I mean I have to say I
feel like I've lived a bit
00:44:07.770 --> 00:44:12.358
of a charmed life and
gotten many things in life
00:44:12.441 --> 00:44:14.818
that many people didn't have.
00:44:19.365 --> 00:44:21.033
But on the other hand,
00:44:21.367 --> 00:44:27.623
I think I gave up things that
I probably shouldn't have.
00:44:36.965 --> 00:44:39.176
(bird squawking)
00:44:39.259 --> 00:44:42.763
I think it's kind of a pretty
unique opportunity, you know?
00:44:42.846 --> 00:44:46.433
Like I get to talk about you,
you know,
00:44:46.517 --> 00:44:48.268
talk about these things
that happened
00:44:48.352 --> 00:44:52.064
a lot before I was born,
you know?
00:44:52.940 --> 00:44:54.358
And learn something new.
00:44:54.525 --> 00:44:56.068
- Yeah.
- You know?
00:45:00.114 --> 00:45:02.491
- It's hard to really
understand.
00:45:02.574 --> 00:45:09.707
I mean I think it's better
just to have a discussion and
00:45:09.790 --> 00:45:16.588
let it flow and think about
it later and what it means.
00:46:16.356 --> 00:46:19.943
So I’d generally let the
turtles go right around here.
00:46:20.027 --> 00:46:22.112
I don't know if that
was a smart thing to do
00:46:22.196 --> 00:46:25.616
or whether they made it out,
you know,
00:46:25.699 --> 00:46:28.035
at the time they'd just
start swimming away.
00:46:28.118 --> 00:46:30.245
I don't know if they got
trapped in here.
00:46:30.329 --> 00:46:30.913
- Yeah.
00:46:30.996 --> 00:46:35.042
- Or some kinder, smarter
soul took him out.
00:46:39.463 --> 00:46:43.133
Yeah, a beautiful day
in Cincinnati.
00:46:43.217 --> 00:46:45.093
- Yeah.
